Marple Website Community Calendar
Archive => Archived Boards => Local Issues => Topic started by: CTCREP on April 25, 2013, 04:31:56 PM
-
The All Party Parliamentary Cycling Group has published a report that aims to get more people cycling. You would think that was enough, but the Times, AA, Sustrans, CTC amongst others don't think so and are asking people to sign an epetition urging the Government to take notice of this report and do something useful. You may not be a cyclist, but it could still affect you indirectly, for example, by enabling more children to cycle to school and so reduce the School Run traffic problems. There are many other benefits.
The epetition is https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49196 (https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49196)
-
The All Party Parliamentary Cycling Group has published a report that aims to get more people cycling. You would think that was enough, but the Times, AA, Sustrans, CTC amongst others don't think so and are asking people to sign an epetition urging the Government to take notice of this report and do something useful. You may not be a cyclist, but it could still affect you indirectly, for example, by enabling more children to cycle to school and so reduce the School Run traffic problems. There are many other benefits.
The epetition is https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49196 (https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/49196)
More kids cycling to school, more kids knocked down by drivers, simple logistics!
-
More kids cycling to school, more kids knocked down by drivers, simple logistics!
Obviously not read the petition, we need to encourage far more people to cycle on our roads, only that way will we get a proper use of the shared space. Roads were not just built for motorists.
-
Further to the original post, I have now received this request to distribute:-
Greater Manchester Combined Authority and Transport for Greater Manchester are about to submit a bid to the Department for Transport’s Cycle City Ambition Grant.
We are bidding for up to £20 million of government investment, to be spent over two years, to make cycling safer and easier.
This would take the form of a series of more continental-style, largely segregated, cycle routes within the heart of the conurbation, together with the delivery of a number of cycle and ride stations.
And to get more people on their bikes using these new facilities, we’d deliver a programme of promotion and engagement designed to trigger a generational shift that has the potential to ‘mainstream’ cycling.
If approved, our bid would unlock further investment in cycling across Greater Manchester from public and private partners over a ten-year period.
We need the funding from government to kick-start this dramatic transformation – and that’s where you can help.
You can show your support for our plans – for major investment in cycling in Greater Manchester – by encouraging colleagues, contacts, Twitter followers, friends and family to visit our pledge page and simply click on the pledge link:
http://cycling.tfgm.com/velocity/ (http://cycling.tfgm.com/velocity/)
To ensure a true picture of support, only one pledge from each IP address can be accepted. If you are trying to pledge from a corporate email the system will only allow one address to register.
You are urged to pledge your support as an individual from a personal system .
Please also share the link via email, Facebook, Twitter and personal blogs so as many people as possible know about – and back – our bid.
-
CTCREP,
How would you do that, how would it actually work ?
How would you make a cyclist's journey from say Marple Station to Stockport Town Hall at 8am safer ? Apart from encouraging him to take the bus.
-
CTCREP,
How would you do that, how would it actually work ?
How would you make a cyclist's journey from say Marple Station to Stockport Town Hall at 8am safer ? Apart from encouraging him to take the bus.
Simone all the evidence is that there is a critical mass of cyclist after which safety improves significantly. More cyclists on the roads the safer we all are. I cycle to Stockport everyday at about 9am and its perfectly safe.
-
Further to the original post, I have now received this request to distribute:-
Greater Manchester Combined Authority and Transport for Greater Manchester are about to submit a bid to the Department for Transport’s Cycle City Ambition Grant.
We are bidding for up to £20 million of government investment, to be spent over two years, to make cycling safer and easier.
This would take the form of a series of more continental-style, largely segregated, cycle routes within the heart of the conurbation, together with the delivery of a number of cycle and ride stations.
And to get more people on their bikes using these new facilities, we’d deliver a programme of promotion and engagement designed to trigger a generational shift that has the potential to ‘mainstream’ cycling.
If approved, our bid would unlock further investment in cycling across Greater Manchester from public and private partners over a ten-year period.
We need the funding from government to kick-start this dramatic transformation – and that’s where you can help.
You can show your support for our plans – for major investment in cycling in Greater Manchester – by encouraging colleagues, contacts, Twitter followers, friends and family to visit our pledge page and simply click on the pledge link:
http://cycling.tfgm.com/velocity/ (http://cycling.tfgm.com/velocity/)
To ensure a true picture of support, only one pledge from each IP address can be accepted. If you are trying to pledge from a corporate email the system will only allow one address to register.
You are urged to pledge your support as an individual from a personal system .
Please also share the link via email, Facebook, Twitter and personal blogs so as many people as possible know about – and back – our bid.
As a chap who get's his bike out every now and again, Ieverything I've seen proposed in Manchester is a total waste of money and loses sight of why we cycle.
-
Simone all the evidence is that there is a critical mass of cyclist after which safety improves significantly. More cyclists on the roads the safer we all are. I cycle to Stockport everyday at about 9am and its perfectly safe.
Damn, I agree with Wheels. The more bikes there are, the mor the motorist will look out for them. I've been knocked off the bike by motorists who either simply are not aware or in one case, took offence at the idea I may overtake them.
-
I want to make a public statement that I had nothing whatsoever to do with Duke agreeing with me he has done it entirely of his own volition and members should not attribute any agreement with Duke on my part. HELP!!!!!!!!
-
I've been knocked off the bike by motorists who either simply are not aware or in one case, took offence at the idea I may overtake them.
Maybe they knew it was you Duke. :)
-
I've been knocked off the bike by motorists who either simply are not aware or in one case, took offence at the idea I may overtake them.
Maybe they knew it was you Duke. :)
Perhaps, I've never been one to take legal action but at the time i just gave the the woman a bit of abuse & got back on. An hour later at work, my knee was twice the size and I cannot play football now without it crippling me for a couple of weeks. I wish I'd taken taken her to court in hindsight.
-
Simone all the evidence is that there is a critical mass of cyclist after which safety improves significantly. More cyclists on the roads the safer we all are. I cycle to Stockport everyday at about 9am and its perfectly safe.
In theory Wheels I can relate to your assertion but in my experience the reality doesn't support it.
I've known perhaps 30 cyclists over the years to varying personal degrees and virtually everyone of them has a story about how they "went down" off their bike. A very good friend of mine was almost killed cycling to work. He fell off his bike and unbelieveably a car ran over him. Needless to say he still cycles to work. I actually know a cyclist who was knocked down by an ambulance and another one who was run over by another cyclist. You see, cyclists are all crazy, you'd have to be crazy to cycle down Stockport Rd on a January morning at 8am. You'll never get a cyclist off his bike and he won't be happy until he's converted the rest of us. Duke says that he can't play football anymore because of a cycling accident but that won't stop him cycling. That's another example that supports my theory that cyclists are crazy. Although on reflection Duke has posted a picture of Mick Channon in a Southampton shirt so he obviously didn't know much about the sport in the first place.
Cycling is a healthy outdoor pursuit and it is safe if you do it properly and carefully - In Amsterdam - not in Gtr Manchester.
-
Earlier Simon said:-
CTCREP,
How would you do that, how would it actually work ?
How would you make a cyclist's journey from say Marple Station to Stockport Town Hall at 8am safer ? Apart from encouraging him to take the bus.[/font]
The proposed route is to extend Connect 2, which at present ends at Otterspool, by upgrading the track between Otterspool and Bredbury Hall and then onwards into Stockport for the Town Hall, Station, Stockport and Aquinas Colleges. It also connects to the TPT which eventually could bring more cycling visitors to Marple and benefit the local cafes etc, and help prevent them closing. Of course this requires the support of Stockport Council which up till now is more interested in self promotion by spending thousands on Stockport MBC Park entrance signs which have no practical purpose rather than providing suitable Information Boards and direction signs that would cater for its residents, visitors and businesses, but we live in hope.
As to your theory that cyclists are crazy, surely you should be asking who is doing the knocking off and why. You suggest you can only cycle in Amsterdam, well this is just the start of trying to make Manchester more like Amsterdam and we hope everyone will agree with that.
-
CTCREP,
I do ask myself ..."who is doing the knocking off". I said that you were "crazy" not culpable. As you infer it isn't the cyclists it is the motorists. Of course it is, but blame doesn't prevent either of them from being there does it? It doesn't matter whose fault it is when your lying concussed in the middle of the road. To me it is more where you cycle than anything else.
I'm not against cyclists nor cycling, I'm just concerned for their safety. The scheme that you have kindly taken the time to explain seems like a very good idea and I support it but that's just one scheme.
My wider point though is that the roads in Greater Manchester as they are, are just not safe for cyclists. You might as well walk amongst the traffic as cycle amongst it for all the protection you have on a bike and you wouldn't do that would you? I wouldn't allow my children to have bicycles as there was too much traffic on the roads and that was in the 80's. The thought of my grandkids cycling to school on today's public roads just absolutely fills me with dread.
-
Hello Simone
You said -You might as well walk amongst the traffic as cycle amongst it for all the protection you have on a bike and you wouldn't do that would you?
A few years ago we went on holiday to Rome, the traffic looked chaotic but the Holiday Rep said " If you want to cross the road, just do it, the traffic will move round you if necessary" We did, and it did. Last year we went to Norway where we felt virtually obliged to cross the road as we had glanced at what appeared to be a pedestrian crossing and the traffic then stopped.
The difference is that Italy and Norway like the majority of Europe, but significantly not the UK, adhere to the policy of Strict Liability with respect to road accidents. In their cases it is up to the motorist to prove the victim was at fault if he/she doesn't want to take responsibility in any collision. In the UK the principle of "Innocent until proved Guilty" is always quoted as paramount, although in reality 90% of the time the victim has no way of proving the motorist guilty. It is said that to bring in Strict Liability would result in a culture of cyclists deliberately running into motorists. We know motorists do this themselves - the deliberate stop to force someone behind them to run into them and then claim compensation - but apart from the fact that a bike running into a car may only scratch the paintwork and is far less likely to damage the driver but to achieve a major compensation claim similar to the motorist example above would mean really risking your own life. You wouldn't do that, would you?
Unfortunately the law needs changing, but those who might be able to do so are practically all motorists. Politicians and Lawers should have to declare an interest and leave it to the non-motoring few to decide, but that is unlikely.
-
In theory Wheels I can relate to your assertion but in my experience the reality doesn't support it.
I've known perhaps 30 cyclists over the years to varying personal degrees and virtually everyone of them has a story about how they "went down" off their bike. A very good friend of mine was almost killed cycling to work. He fell off his bike and unbelieveably a car ran over him. Needless to say he still cycles to work. I actually know a cyclist who was knocked down by an ambulance and another one who was run over by another cyclist. You see, cyclists are all crazy, you'd have to be crazy to cycle down Stockport Rd on a January morning at 8am. You'll never get a cyclist off his bike and he won't be happy until he's converted the rest of us. Duke says that he can't play football anymore because of a cycling accident but that won't stop him cycling. That's another example that supports my theory that cyclists are crazy. Although on reflection Duke has posted a picture of Mick Channon in a Southampton shirt so he obviously didn't know much about the sport in the first place.
Cycling is a healthy outdoor pursuit and it is safe if you do it properly and carefully - In Amsterdam - not in Gtr Manchester.
It's Supermac!! Not Mick Channon.
I think a little cycle lane marked on Dan Bank would help just reminding motorists to allow a bit of room. THe difficulty is that on that road, the cyclist is either going ot be going fast or very slowly.
-
It's Supermac!! Not Mick Channon.
I think a little cycle lane marked on Dan Bank would help just reminding motorists to allow a bit of room. THe difficulty is that on that road, the cyclist is either going ot be going fast or very slowly.
Thought there was a cycle lane on dan bank on the new footpath going down or up which ever you prefer .
-
Thought there was a cycle lane on dan bank on the new footpath going down or up which ever you prefer .
It's not much good on that side of the road if you are going down hill.
-
Goodness I am agreeing with Duke again. If your going down to the lights as Duke says your either going very fast if the lights are on green or slowly if they are on red as their is no possibility of passing motor traffic as they seem unable to leave space to let you through.
But hey we are road users with the same rights as cars they will just have to wait for me. Also the state of the road after you have gone passed the lights is so poor you have to go out to the middle of the road. I have to say most drivers seem to understand how difficult the Dan Ban/17 Windows transfer is and I have never had hassel there.
Simone I cycle to Stockport every day and it takes about 24 minutes, not much longer than driving. If I can do that at 61 I urge you to taqke it up.
-
CTCREP,
I'm not really sure that I understand the para about "compensation".
My point is a simple one - it isn't safe for the cyclist to cycle on the public roads in Britains towns and cities.
As for Norway and Rome, enjoyed the stories but we don't live there, do we ?
By the way, have you ever had an accident on your bike?
-
Duke,
Supermac, Harold McMillan never played for Newcastle did he ?
-
CTCREP,
I'm not really sure that I understand the para about "compensation".
My point is a simple one - it isn't safe for the cyclist to cycle on the public roads in Britains towns and cities.
As for Norway and Rome, enjoyed the stories but we don't live there, do we ?
By the way, have you ever had an accident on your bike?
Simone the roads of Britian are perfectly safe for cyclists but could be made even safer with more cyclists and better driving. Do you think Amsterdam and other places were build as they are now. In fact the cycling infrastructure in Holland is much more recent than many realise. What is needed to make Britian even safer for cyclists is not hiding cyclists out of the way of road but better driving whererby driver understand that the priority on the roads are pedistrians, cyclists then cars. as it is in other European countires.
-
It's not much good on that side of the road if you are going down hill.
Don't understand what you mean .dont you go down hill on the other side of the road .
-
Of course he doesn't if anyone cycles down on the right (cycle path) what do they then do at the bottom if they are going to Stockport. Cycle paths are not meant to cycle down they are for cycling up.
-
Cycle paths are not meant to cycle down they are for cycling up.
Did you really mean that, Wheels? Are cyclists any more likely to get knocked over by cars when they are travelling uphill than downhill?
At various times I'm a pedestrian, cyclist, car-driver - I think we all have to be reasonable about how we share the available space. As a cyclist the only accidents I've had with cars has occurred when a driver has opened a car door in my face.
-
Did you really mean that, Wheels? Are cyclists any more likely to get knocked over by cars when they are travelling uphill than downhill?
At various times I'm a pedestrian, cyclist, car-driver - I think we all have to be reasonable about how we share the available space. As a cyclist the only accidents I've had with cars has occurred when a driver has opened a car door in my face.
I think there is a difference in Europe than here. In part, it's because most Europeans would have gone through their late teens & twenties on scooters and therefore there is a better understanding of 2 wheels.
The problem in the morning is there appears to be a very real road rage going on for anything that overtakes. On the bike, I will usually beat any car if I'm leaving 7.30 - 8.30 but car drivers will actually willfully close up any spaces. A woman last year actually tried to ram me with her Citeroen Picasso even with her child in the car. This was because that whilst she was in stationary traffic, I passed her and when from the outside to the inside in front of her stationary car.
-
Hollins yes I do mean that cyclists are less at risk travelling down than up. Travelling down for example Dan Bank you move with the traffic and generally are safe doing so. Although Duke makes an excellent point that some drivers go out of their way to close up spaces as he describes or to deliberately move towards cyclists. Whilst travelling up hill cyclists are much slower and are more at risk from speeding traffic.
-
Perhaps cyclists should have the same responsibilities as motorists if they expect the same rights - a system of registration and insurance, and payment of tax!
-
Perhaps cyclists should have the same responsibilities as motorists if they expect the same rights - a system of registration and insurance, and payment of tax!
I am a cyclist and often travel between 8 - 9 am on Stockport Road, just like a motorist I pay road tax and car insurance I just happen to be a bit more socially responsible and leave my car on the drive when I can.
-
Perhaps cyclists should have the same responsibilities as motorists if they expect the same rights - a system of registration and insurance, and payment of tax!
Nobody pays road tax it was abolished in 1937
-
I didn't say road tax, I said tax. DVLA website calls it car tax. sorry for lack of precision.
-
I didn't say road tax, I said tax. DVLA website calls it car tax. sorry for lack of precision.
And what sort of resources are you going to put into monitoring this
-
I didn't say road tax, I said tax. DVLA website calls it car tax. sorry for lack of precision.
The concequences for that are difficult. How does a 16 yr old become responsible? Most over 18's have a car as well as a bike, therefore taxing a bike is double taxing for the same road. If we are saying it's desirable for congestion & environomental reasons to encourage bike use, taxing bike use is not the way to go.
-
a 16 year old is responsible in law for his/her actions, so should take out insurance (as 16 year old moped riders and 17 year old car drivers have to), and as a road user should pay some sort of tax on his/her cycle. It has been pointed out in previous threads that cyclists can reach fairly high speeds going down Dan Bank, if I, as a pedestrian, were crossing the road and hit by a cyclist, what chance would I have of claiming compensation? Probably very little, because it seems to me that pedestrians are at the bottom of the pile.
-
what chance would I have of claiming compensation?
You would have to do just like if you had been hit by a car and use the courts to claim damages off the person responsible for the accident. Whether the person is a car driver or a cyclist is immaterial.
-
a 16 year old is responsible in law for his/her actions, so should take out insurance (as 16 year old moped riders and 17 year old car drivers have to), and as a road user should pay some sort of tax on his/her cycle. It has been pointed out in previous threads that cyclists can reach fairly high speeds going down Dan Bank, if I, as a pedestrian, were crossing the road and hit by a cyclist, what chance would I have of claiming compensation? Probably very little, because it seems to me that pedestrians are at the bottom of the pile.
A minor cannot enter a contract unless for subsistence.
Why would you cross the road at Dan Bank?
It's unlikely that the cyclist would break 30mph, if you are hit by a cyclist, is it more than likely to be your fault?
-
A minor cannot enter a contract unless for subsistence.
Why would you cross the road at Dan Bank?
It's unlikely that the cyclist would break 30mph, if you are hit by a cyclist, is it more than likely to be your fault?
So I walk down Dan Bank on the shared pedestrian/cycle path and then cross the road in order to access the public footpath on the other side, if I am hit by a cyclist at 30mph it's my fault. Unbelievable!
-
So I walk down Dan Bank on the shared pedestrian/cycle path and then cross the road in order to access the public footpath on the other side, if I am hit by a cyclist at 30mph it's my fault. Unbelievable!
Yes, if you walk out in front of the cyclist while the lights are in the cyclist's favour.
-
So I walk down Dan Bank on the shared pedestrian/cycle path and then cross the road in order to access the public footpath on the other side, if I am hit by a cyclist at 30mph it's my fault. Unbelievable!
If you walk out in front of a cyclist who is legitimately cycling through green traffic lights and you cause him to swerve, crash and get seriously injured do you think that is the cyclist's fault?
If, on the other hand, the cyclist "shoots" a red light then he should be prosecuted like any other road user and if he hits a pedestrian whilst doing so then it is a serious offence.
It is just about feasible to go down Dan Bank at 30 mph on a bike, but given the potholes on the other side it probably isn't a good idea. If you really wanted to "Get Britain Cycling" then mending the road surface would help.
-
Where did I say I would walk in front of a cyclist legitimately going through a green light? You cyclists are such a pedantic lot. It has been said previously on this forum ( i cant remember who by) that some cyclists do not stop at red lights as a matter of course. My idle query was, as cyclists are not registered and do not have to have public liability insurance, what can pedestrians or motorists who feel they have been a victim of an accident caused by a cyclist do? Probably nothing until cyclists have to display registration details!
-
Where did I say I would walk in front of a cyclist legitimately going through a green light? You cyclists are such a pedantic lot. It has been said previously on this forum ( i cant remember who by) that some cyclists do not stop at red lights as a matter of course. My idle query was, as cyclists are not registered and do not have to have public liability insurance, what can pedestrians or motorists who feel they have been a victim of an accident caused by a cyclist do? Probably nothing until cyclists have to display registration details!
What are you on about many many thousands of cyclists do have public liability cover, many organisations provide it. You seem unable to distinguish between cyclists and bike users.
-
Whether or not you are a victim of a cyclist , pedestrian or motorist is immaterial when it comes to claiming compensation. All can be claimed against but you have to have proof. Victims of accidents involving cyclists and pedestrians are fairly rare but if you can prove negligence or worse then you can make a claim - if you have the proof. In most cases there are no independent witnesses to provide that proof so no very little chance of getting compensation. In this instance we (cyclists) believe the principle of Strict Liability, which is recognised in most European Countries but significantly not the UK, should be applied here. "As I understand it" - sorry for the phrase but I am no lawyer, the liability in any accident is then shared between the two parties unless one party can prove the other is at fault. The motoring fraternity always quote that everyone is "Innocent until Proved Guilty". Unfortunately this means in every "accident" the victim has to prove the other party was at fault, which in the vast majority of cases is impossible due to there being no independent witnesses. If Strict liability were accepted at least you would get partial compensation unless the other party could prove otherwise. The motor vehicle, yes and even the bicycle, is no less a lethal weapon than a knife or a gun the use of which you should take responsibility for, but in the UK the motorist gets far more lenient treatment than the knife or gun owner. Several years ago a man went out in a defective car, drove irresponsibly and killed 4 cyclists. All the police could charge him with was having 3 bald tyres for which he was fined £186, the victims families were then left to try to get compensation themselves, unsuccessfully I believe. At much the same time a woman was being terrorised by a couple of thugs. she went out with an air pistol and although no one was hurt she was put in prison and lost her job. Again at that time my friends and I were cycling in the lanes near Wilmslow. A motorist came round the corner travelling too fast, hit the grass verge and shot across the road behind us ending up in the hedge. A little earlier and he could have killed all 4 of us. We turned back to see if he needed assistance and were horrified to see a lady cyclist laying injured in the road. Ambulance and police were called and our statements taken but we heard no more, presumably because the "accident" occurred behind us and we didn't see the actual impact. It would then have been up to the lady to take out a civil action which with "no independent witnesses" was unlikely to succeed. It is time the UK recognised this unbalanced use of the law in this country.
-
So I walk down Dan Bank on the shared pedestrian/cycle path and then cross the road in order to access the public footpath on the other side, if I am hit by a cyclist at 30mph it's my fault. Unbelievable!
It rather depends, if you cross the road when a cyclist is coming down the road, it is your fault for not looking properly (assuming the cyclist suitable lighting etc).