Post by: on July 25, 2005, 11:22:23 PM
It is because of this that I feel compelled to utter my disgust at the loutish  and thuggish behaviour of many of our younger and mid-twenties into thirties members of the community of Marple.
Why do so many of these youngsters have to move around in gangs, parading their Baseball Caps and hoodies, track bottoms and trainers, spitting copious amounts of sputum and phlegm wherever they seem to walk or congregate.
Why do so many of these people have no regards for the well being and dignity of the majority of our citizens, by swearing loudly and offensively wherever they be, in shops, precincts and buses.
Why is it that so many youngsters seem to be able to buy and consume alcohol from off licences and even pubs and clubs
and why is it that licensees will serve these people and allow filthy language and inappropriate behaviour to carry on unabated.
Will somebody tell me why?
I fear for the future unless  the government gives more powers to those entrusted with the well being of society, The Judges, The Magistrates and the Police,the Councils and Authorities and introduce more powers of punishment so that the muggers, and burglar's and other distasteful miscreants will rue the day they started to challenge decent society.
Community service is a failure which provides employment for it's supervisors (not that I criticise them).
I believe we should have a return to the sharp shock treatment in borstal type establishments both for boys and girls and young adults
I would welcome the return of corporal punishment
I would welcome a more disciplined prison regime
And yes I would even welcome the re introduction of National Service
Post by: Rachael on July 26, 2005, 05:12:26 PM
I can understand some of your points, but it is a minority, not the majority that hang around in gangs, and I feel its often too quick to jump on the youngsters of marple, and quite often it is the older generation who are the worst culprits, Im not blaming parents, but sometimes children behave the way they do, simply because they can, and have no regard for other people simply because they are allowed to get away with behaving the way they do, because they have never been taught how to respect people, but then again, their parents dont know how to either, but like I said, its a minority, not the majority, Marple has some great kids, just because they wear baseball caps doesnt make them thugs, its a fashion.
What kind of offence do you think warrants borstal (not that im disagreeing , just curious), and warrants return of corparal punishement(again not agreeing or disagreeing, just curious), how far should someone be allowed to go before enforcing the things you think should be bought back.
I just think your whole issue and opinions are very strong, im not saying you are right or wrong (Im sitting on the fence), If your child did something wrong, would you firmly believe that they deserve all the things that you believe should be returned straight away, has your child ever done anything wrong, and you have let them get away with it??
There are a minority of gangs in every town you go to, it isnt just Marple, and at the end of the day, It is your choice as too whether you stay in Marple or not, you have a choice as to where you live, you have a choice as to the pubs in Marple that you drink in, you have the choice to remove your custom from the shops you believe are selling alchohol to youngsters.
I dont condone the behaviour of the genuine Louts, I have children, and have bought them up to be individual, that they dont have to follow the crowd (they dont have to be a sheep, as I tell them), they are told off verbaly if they are not polite and well mannered, but I do believe that respect is a two way thing.
Well thats my rant over!!
Thanks for reading!
Post by: on July 26, 2005, 11:07:33 PM
It is because of this that I feel compelled to utter my disgust at the loutish and thuggish behaviour of many of our younger and mid-twenties into thirties members of the community of Marple.
Post by: on July 26, 2005, 11:17:58 PM
I readily accept that these reprobates are in the minority and I made reference to the good youngsters.
Why should I have not choose NOT to go into certain pubs because of the clientèle  that spoil things for decent folk
If the up and coming generation are taught to respect society, the community in which they live, their peers and elders and themselves, then perhaps we might have a chance.
Australia or New Zealand here I come!!!!
Post by: on July 26, 2005, 11:46:52 PM
Post by: Rachael on July 27, 2005, 08:32:35 AM
My son read your first post Fed up, and said he felt insulted, yes he is only young, but that does not mean he does not have an opinion that is right.
from the mouth of a child "Yes, I have a Hoody, yes I have a baseball hat, but that doesnt make me some yob who spits and swears, I feel insulted"
You have contradicted yourself slightly, you say "Why should I"when I mention you have choices, but then finish with Australia, New Zealand, here I come!! Have you ever been to Australia or New Zealand, I persume you must have done, as I take it upon myself to persume (again) that you have sound knowledge it is a better country and if so, why are you not there now.
Obviously you have free choice, but you didnt answer my questions as to what warrants the things you think should be bought back, I am just interested, and Im sure you dont mind telling as you have made your feelings so public on your first post.
I still do not say whether I agree or disagree with your first post, nor am I starting some sort of debate.
Post by: Rachael on July 27, 2005, 06:05:58 PM
Post by: tina on July 28, 2005, 04:58:06 PM
My son hangs around with school friends usually 4-5 at a time.
They are not causing trouble or falling over drunk, all they are doing is hanging around, usually swimming in the river at brabyn's park because there is nothing for them to do.
My son had a sleepover at weekend where 4 boys stayed over, and they didn't make a sound. They was very polite.
Just because a small group of youths are letting the side down doesn't mean that they all should be tarred with the same brush.
But it's not just Marple there are teenagers in every town and every country, I'm sure no matter where you live 'fed up' you will never be happy and will always be fed up!
If it concerns you so much why not do something to give the youths of today something to look forward to and give them a break!
Post by: on July 29, 2005, 03:40:24 PM
I am talking about the louts and miscreants most of whom wear Hoodies and baseball caps.
If the cap fits, then wear it.
I certainly hope that my kids dont go down to Brabyns swimming, are they supervised? is it safe?.If Mine were at Brabyns I would be with them and they would not be in the river
Have we not got a good smimming pool, have we not got a good scout and guide troop, have we not got the sea and air cadets and the St Johns and Red Cross.
Stop trying to make excuses for the kids who need guidence and dicipline
Post by: Howard on July 29, 2005, 04:44:06 PM
Marple is a semi-rural community. We are surrounded by countryside and I, for one, would rather children were out in the parks and the countryside in teh fresh air rather than stuck indoors behind their computers and on their mobile phones. This is the reason I signed my children up for beavers/cubs and brownies/guides. They are taught the necessary skills to deal with life. They are taught how to act independly and how to work in a team. When they have these skills you can't then not expect them to use them.
How do you know whether these children wearing the hoodies and caps that you are so fond of criticising aren't members of scouts or guides? Your association of crime with hoodies and caps is as bad as racism - all people who wear hoodies/caps must be criminals = all black people are...(insert your stereotype here). In fact, I have three hoodies myself and I'm a 37 year-old father with a steady job and a mortgage. I even wear a cap with it sometimes. Am I a thug?
Take a look at your own attitudes and re-assess them before you start casting aspersions on the youth of today.
Post by: Rachael on July 29, 2005, 07:30:38 PM
Still got no answer to my questions the Fed up??
Post by: tina on July 30, 2005, 11:53:41 PM
I might not like the fact my son swims in the river but I know it will be a passing faze for him, it does not mean he is a bad person just because he has a swim. I would like to think I have brought my son up to respect his olders. If I thought or knew he was being disrespectful to anyone I would be the first one to put him in his place and make sure it didn't happen again. Some teenagers might have their parents wrapped around their little finger and believe their child is an angel, which unfortunatley means that child will grow into adulthood believing that they can get away with anything in life. But that does not mean all kids will turn out like that, as long as they have the right guidance. Their clothing has nothing to do with their behaviour!
I get the feeling that 'fed up' has had a bad experience with some youths around Marple and maybe that is why he/she is being so harsh. But please 'fed up' give our kids a chance to grow, yes there are some out there who do cause trouble, but that will happen in every town or country. If you choose to leave our lovely town because of the youths then obviously that is your choice. I hope you can find peace and happiness somewhere else.
Post by: Rachael on August 01, 2005, 10:12:45 AM
Post by: Lisa Oldham on August 02, 2005, 10:08:47 AM
I still remember hanging round marple streets and almost swimming in Brabyns ( well it was a bit cold and grubby) and I def climbed trees - who could resist - and Im the grand old age of 38
There was little to do then for kids of a certain age and there still isnt anything to do for the same age group now...
I think most of us grew up to be reasonable law abiding responsible citizens. I was never a brownie guide scout or otherwise but I am a trustee of a charity now !
so let them have their time...
having said that yep theres a few more dodgy kids around and certainly less respect for their elders but no doubt most will still grow up eventually to be "normal" grumpy adults
Post by: on August 04, 2005, 03:20:04 PM
Post by: alan@marple on August 05, 2005, 03:01:39 PM
A civilised society that can no longer feel outrage, can no longer be civilised. "
I hasten to add not my words but a quote I found on Civilised society on the net
Having returned from absence for a week, I feel compelled to respond to the miscellany of comments and observations that have been submitted since the publications of " Fed up"'s article on youth and young adults.
It certainly has caused much thought and in some cases " offence" although personally  I feel the writer makes some valid and good points.
The writer in my opinion, Â started by complimenting the majority of young people and made reference to the St Georges Day parade, I too watched this parade and agree it was pleasurable to watch, the church was full and I might add not just with " Christian Folk" but people of other religions and ethnic backgrounds and I have no reason to doubt that others were there perhaps from a spiritual influence or just to demonstrate their love of their homeland, whether it be by birth or naturalisation.
Probably more  families could have been there, save for the
demands of  work and family responsibilities and needs and I must accept that others, perhaps are not interested, that is their choice,after all, we are still a free country,thanks to the brave men and women who served during the war.
I note that "Fed up" asked the question why does this unruly behaviour go on unabated and yet no one has even suggested a reason, some mothers rapidly wrote in defence of their own children and rightly so, but the writer was not getting at those children of responsible parents and who I am sure, share the same views on decent society as the majority of us.
I feel that Howard who as we know is a regular contributor to this forum should rethink his attitudes particularly to-wards the writer, I do not believe that this forum should be used for any intentional insulting comments, but really to suggest that " fed up" is a racists!! I don't recall reading anything about the colour of these peoples skins, we all know that offenders and criminals come from every branch of the human tree.
I am so pleased that Howard's children are members of the Beavers, Brownies etc so are some of my grandchildren, I like Howard, place trust in the leadership of the supervisors of these groups and I agree with his views that the children are taught the skills to deal with life and also to live in harmony with each other and the community.I have a grandson who goes with his dad every week to learn the art  of Karate he has progressed well he learns discipline of body and mind, it teaches him to be respectful and considerate to others it keeps him and his dad fit. I have another grandson in the beavers and a granddaughter in the brownies, one of my younger grandsons is becoming quite a star on the football field, all these activities contribute to the ever increasing need for youthful participation in the community activities.
Howard asks how the writer knows that the hoodies are not worn by these youngsters , well once again, the writer is referring to the criminal element of this section of society and as "fed up" says , he (or she) was referring to "the louts and miscreants, most of whom wear hoodies and baseball caps". I would not argue with that statement.
Did anyone read an article in this weeks Daily Mail written by Joan Collins in which she expresses a personal opinion
Former DYNASTY star JOAN COLLINS is furious to see the way the UK is spiralling into chaos, claiming the nation is filled with drunken youths terrorising the streets.
The glamorous 72-year-old's strong political views have impressed members of parliament to the extent they are keen to enlist her into the Conservative Party, as she is unafraid to speak plainly about the plight of the nation.
She fumes, "Recently, I have concluded that London is no longer the 'seat of civilised society'.
"Why do young people consider it cool to be arrogant, swaggering and rude?
"Why do so many people in England seem so cynical and self-centred?
"I've witnessed young, drunken yobs roaming the streets, kicking cars, screaming insults, pushing people and even pushchairs out of their way, attacking each other and then turning on the police when they tried to maintain order."
Well perhaps not in the "semi rural" sleepy hollow of Marple after all we only have about 20.000 registered !!!!
Still I think she has a point.
Rachael was enquiring about the St Johns Ambulance Cadets.
Well they meet every Wednesday between 7-8.30 pm at Barrack Hill. Thats the Romiley and Bredbury Group
Post by: Howard on August 05, 2005, 10:55:45 PM
I was not calling "fed up" a racist. I was merely pointing out that judging people on their appearance is an attitude commonplace amongst racists. "Fed up" equates hoodie + cap = thug. Paraphrasing, I know, but that is the essence of the statement. I equate judging people on their appearance with racism and other reprehensible acts of discrimination. Of course, if the hoodie-wearing individual continues to demonstrate behaviour associated with thuggishness, such as spitting, swearing, swigging alchopops in public etc then you can label them as "thug" with no further argument from me.
Anyway, back to the point of your post, which you are correct, I did not answer "fed up"'s questions about why this behaviour exists and is tolerated. My theory about why we have anti-social behaviour is that this is a problem inherent in human society.
Low-level anti social behaviour is a byproduct of *any* society that does not rely on every member having to perform a useful function that perpetuates the survival of that society. For example, primitive hunter-gatherer societies did/do not suffer from the problem as every member of the group has a function. Whether that function is hunting, gathering, preparation of food or shelter etc., every member, not matter how young or old must contribute or they don't get the food, warmth and protection against the harshness of the world and they will die.
As soon as a society becomes "civilised", and you can look back as far as the Romans, the Greeks, or even the truly ancient civilisations from the Golden Crescent around Mesopotamia etc then you end up having some "slack" in the system. Instead of calling it "slack" call it "leisure time". The more leisure time a society has, the more automated and structured the infrastructure supporting that society becomes and this is a cycle that perpetuates and exacerbates the situation.
Eventually this leads to people feeling less reliant on their tribe and people concentrate on the "me" rather than the "we". Young people are inherently selfish until they have been taught that "we" is more important than "me" which is why education and training is so important for our young people.
To summarise, anti-social behaviour will always be present in our soiciety unless:
1) we are able to educate young people about what is acceptable to perpetuate the existance of our society
2) They have the intelligence to realise the value of this education and act on that understanding
Therefore, unless a society is under immediate threat of extinction there will continue to be a certain amount of selfish behaviour because, in the end, there are always a few stupid people who just don't give a sh*t.
That's my philosophy anyway.
Post by: Rachael on August 09, 2005, 11:53:07 AM
All I wanted was some reasons to Fed ups comments, please lets not turn this from one topic into another, talks of racism quite often fall on "Dodgy" ground (by the way racism isnt always to do with colour of skin) so I think the comments made regarding racism should be put to bed.
Fed up, where are you??? Like I said, on my other posts, you have not explained your reasons for feeling the way you do, you have gone "around the houses" when being asked.
What if it was your son or daughter, would you still expect the punishment to fit the crime 100% no allowances??
Possibly I am speaking out of turn? but as a mother of 2 sons, I can only hope and pray with guidance that my sons grow up to be decent, kind, hard working law abiding citizens, that the picture of their youth (hoodies and all) doesnt automaticly paint the future of their lives!
Post by: on September 04, 2005, 07:32:19 PM
The kids who are 'loud and offensive' usually come from homes where the parents are 'loud and offensive'. Ive seen this first hand. I know. Some kids copy this style even if they come from decent backgrounds just to fit in.
The young kids you see drinking on the streets dont buy the alcohol themselves. Its older brothers, or people over 18 that buy it for them. Again, i know.
As for the 'filthy' language, again its the trend nowadays. Its all over the tv and in most modern teenage music.
Quote from an eminem song: I JUST DONT GIVE A F**K!
So, instead of pointing the finger and saying 'you're a lout' how about chatting with these kids and asking them in a nice way 'why they do what they do'. You might get a sensible answer. Who knows!
Post by: on September 06, 2005, 09:22:26 AM
Notwithstanding that, I give up, its obvious that I stand alone and so I will leave it alone and let the prevailing attitudes steer the course of direction for the future.
Youth work, voluntary work charity work I've done all those things, so for those who suggest it to me " I don't need lessons"
I leave you all to it
farewell
Marple
Post by: Rachael on September 06, 2005, 10:25:50 AM
You see one road, you are as I say blinkered, and you have not read or thought about comments people have made, and I feel that it is sad, yes, you have some valid points that all us mothers would agree with.
You didnt give me good cause to agree with all your points, as I pointed out to you before, you have never given good reason or justified the strong comments or opinions, although I have asked for your reply more than once.
I think its a shame, I really do.
Post by: on September 07, 2005, 02:48:22 AM
I have now been through college and have a degree in Psychology and Sociology. I don't drink or smoke any more and love life. I just wish someone could have helped me and my friends back in those awefull times, instead of sweeping us under the mat a labeling us as the town vermin.
Post by: tina on September 07, 2005, 03:04:50 PM
well done for getting out of the hole of drink and drugs that alone needs a pat on the back, but an extra well done for your degrees, it shows not all kids are bad and just need time to find their own path in life.
Post by: alan@marple on October 24, 2005, 02:04:42 PM
Post by: tina on October 25, 2005, 12:33:13 PM
It's only when some people try to 'rub' people up the wrong way that wires get crossed and then the big debate goes on.
There is always going to be 'some bad citizens' in every town. But there are more 'good' than 'bad'.
Post by: alan@marple on November 11, 2005, 01:05:22 PM
Post by: alan@marple on December 17, 2005, 07:27:52 PM
The telephone box in Market St has had every window smashed.....Mindless
Post by: twinkletoes on November 09, 2008, 01:57:27 PM
It is because of this that I feel compelled to utter my disgust at the loutish  and thuggish behaviour of many of our younger and mid-twenties into thirties members of the community of Marple.
I am in my mid twentys in fact I'm 25 in a few months, when I was a teenager I loved my tracky bottoms and a tee shirt- Oh I must be a THUG! Oh I think I'll go and drink in the park, oh and swear at everyone who goes by!
Yes there are people all over the world who act like thugs and idiots, but you know what?! There are only two people to blame and its the....................PARENTS! "oh I can't control him" or "It's not up to me what they do at night" >:( PARENTS ARE IN CONTROL, THEY ARE THE PARENTS! As for the 30 year old GROW UP! :'(
Post by: myloweb on November 10, 2008, 09:57:12 AM
Post by: Rudolph Hucker on November 10, 2008, 10:33:58 AM
Not sure why this post has resurfaced but while I agree to some extent with twinkletoes about parental responsibility the individual (and societies behaviour toward that individual) has to take over responsibility at some stage - the age one is allowed to legally enjoy the fruits of adulthood (drive/vote/drink/etc.) perhaps?
Take a fictional me for instance. If at 12 I was drunk in the park and swearing at passers by, then quite rightly my parents would be somewhat culpable. (And if you knew my mother you'd perhaps appreciate it wouldn't happen a second time ;D). However the same (fictional) me at 24 being drunk in the park and swearing at passers by... well that would be solely down to me (possibly accepting a weakness in character if brought about by peer pressure).
Now obviously I'm generalising here but 30 years ago if I was 12 and behaving as above, the local bobby - devoid of todays bureaucratic madness and empowered with the ability to make a judgement on behalf of the community s/he served - would clip me round the ear and tell me to get home and confess to the parents before s/he got to them. The 12 year old would respect (fear?) the bobby and do just that. The 24 year old would have a night in the cells - no arrest, no paperwork, a bucket for you know what, no electrical gadgets, no lift home; just plenty of time to ponder the merits or otherwise of the previous evenings folly.
What happens today?
Post by: Lisa Oldham on November 10, 2008, 02:49:10 PM
and thats why we have many of the social problems we have
Children should have "childrens rights"
in my opinion ;)
am i going to be shot down in flames now !!!
Post by: alison on November 10, 2008, 09:46:31 PM
I do think parents have a responsibility in the way they bring up kids to respect the world they live in and to make sure that they understand consequences. I also agree that at times it seems like people's 'rights' seem to favour the wrong people.
Post by: Taurus on November 17, 2008, 03:51:31 PM
The 'bad' hoodies we have here are small time compared to other places. The groups of kids that I have seen hanging around Marple are doing just that, hanging around with their mates. I'm sure that there have been times when some have done something that they shouldn't have done but I haven't witnessed any. No where is perfect, everywhere has a social problem unless you moved to North Korea maybe.
I just love living here, I love my home, I love the fact I can walk to the countryside from my house or down the canal and when I have had a full day working in Manchester I love that bit on the train in between Romiley and Marple station - all that green and I'm almost home. At the end of holidays to Italy, New Zealand, Paris which are all beautiful places I look forward to coming home.
Post by: twinkletoes on January 07, 2009, 10:00:41 AM
Post by: stockport road on January 07, 2009, 09:05:50 PM
Marple needs somthing that isn't to do with dressing up in a uniform, what about craft activatys for people under the age of 40, dance classes that isn't full of people older than 30. Take a good look at the activatys around marple......and what do you see activaties for older people. Where are the teenager activaties? I don't want to offend anyone but marple is a much more "old person" town I have always found that even now at 25. I remember been in the carver theater group I was too old for the drama group but felt to young to be hanging out with the adults. Marple needs help, BIG TIME!
Nothing for Teenagers.... ??? ::) :o
Teenage activities should be .... Cinema going , Cycling , SkateBoarding , Football ,Rugby, Running , Squash , Gym Fitness , Swimming .. need i go on ??
all of which i have done and still do and are easily available in the Marple area
Stop the excuses please.
Post by: twinkletoes on January 09, 2009, 08:53:00 PM
Post by: stockport road on January 11, 2009, 08:39:55 AM
If that was the case why do we have the gangs?! I'm just telling YOU how it is! MARPLE IS Boaring!
:-[
Post by: heather on January 11, 2009, 04:07:05 PM
Post by: twinkletoes on May 23, 2009, 01:16:50 PM