Re: Road plans for ASDA

[amazon]

...which is why it surely comes back to the pre-planning discussions with the officers - which is how it happened when I was involved in planning applications when I worked at a college: 'This is what we're thinking of doing - what do you think?' 'No, we wouldn't recommend approval if you just did that - we think you ought to do this'.  Etc etc etc......  But I can see that a major new supermarket scheme would have to submit a much more thorough and systematic analysis than a college would, because it would have much more impact on traffic.  And as you say, the council would not have done any systematic work of their own - they would argue that they shouldn't have to pay for that. 

That's about the long and short of it.....

I think one or two of you are trying to keep this topic going .at the moment I think it's dead for now .till the plans are submitted ,

[Belly]

...which is why it surely comes back to the pre-planning discussions with the officers - which is how it happened when I was involved in planning applications when I worked at a college: 'This is what we're thinking of doing - what do you think?' 'No, we wouldn't recommend approval if you just did that - we think you ought to do this'.  Etc etc etc......  But I can see that a major new supermarket scheme would have to submit a much more thorough and systematic analysis than a college would, because it would have much more impact on traffic.  And as you say, the council would not have done any systematic work of their own - they would argue that they shouldn't have to pay for that. 

That's about the long and short of it.....

[Dave]

...which is why it surely comes back to the pre-planning discussions with the officers - which is how it happened when I was involved in planning applications when I worked at a college: 'This is what we're thinking of doing - what do you think?' 'No, we wouldn't recommend approval if you just did that - we think you ought to do this'.  Etc etc etc......  But I can see that a major new supermarket scheme would have to submit a much more thorough and systematic analysis than a college would, because it would have much more impact on traffic.  And as you say, the council would not have done any systematic work of their own - they would argue that they shouldn't have to pay for that. 

[Belly]

I think belly knows more about planning than I do, but I still can't see why Asda would want to put any traffic schemes forward unless in response to suggestions from the council. After all, they know they'll only be asked to pay up for them! Why would they want to do that?

They won't want to, but after undertaking their analyses this will tell them what their 'impact' will be. They will then decide how this can be mitigated. They know if they didn't demonstrate a suitable position in their Transport Assessment the application would be refused on highways grounds.

You are right that there is brinksmanship here and no developer will typically propose to pay for stuff that they might try to avoid, but equally they can't just propose nothing and wait to be told what to do.

[Dave]

I think belly knows more about planning than I do, but I still can't see why Asda would want to put any traffic schemes forward unless in response to suggestions from the council. After all, they know they'll only be asked to pay up for them! Why would they want to do that?

[Belly]

Thanks belly - that all makes sense. Although re your final para, although that may be how it's supposed to work in theory, I have experienced (as an applicant) a local authority trying to get us to contribute towards infrastructure costs (via a Section 106 Agreement) which in our view were not a result of our scheme :-(

They can try. But it could be legally challenged and therefore is dangerous for both parties.

When I spoke to the ASDA traffic guy he was slightly coy in that he suggested that assessment work had yet to be done on the immediate network to the store. Which may well be true, but they must have some idea as to the improvements that they are going to put forward. I await these with interest as its going to be a tricky balencing act. The same goes for the Chadwick Street site.

[Miss Marple]

Thanks belly - that all makes sense. Although re your final para, although that may be how it's supposed to work in theory, I have experienced (as an applicant) a local authority trying to get us to contribute towards infrastructure costs (via a Section 106 Agreement) which in our view were not a result of our scheme :-(

A sorry Miss Marple maybe in order  Dave ?

[wheels]

Oh I can see lots of 106s for cycling infrastructure will be required here. 

[Dave]

Thanks belly - that all makes sense. Although re your final para, although that may be how it's supposed to work in theory, I have experienced (as an applicant) a local authority trying to get us to contribute towards infrastructure costs (via a Section 106 Agreement) which in our view were not a result of our scheme :-(

[Belly]

The truth is we don't know what Walmarts plans for our roads are ! 

Why would a planning applicant have any 'plans for our roads'?  They only put such things in their drawings if the planning authority suggests them.  For example, it will have been planning officers at SMBC, no doubt in consultation with colleagues at Highways, who suggested the new mini-roundabout at Hibbert Lane/Edwards Way.  If anyone is curious about any other possible changes to roads, the place to ask would be at SMBC - ASDA and camsfc will just do whatever the council suggests.  

Dave

Thats only true to a point. ASDA will assess the local network and then produce a report which will then set out either a) The junctions are all fine and no off-site work needs to be done, or b) those locations where problems are predicted and where work is required. They will then propose what work is necessary. This will all be set out in a formal report known as a Transport Assessment - a report required to be submitted to allow the planning applciation to be validated.

SMBC will then review this TA and either a) agree with the findings, or b) disagree and either ask for more work to be done to convince them or request those additional measures that they think necessary.

Its possible that some pre-app discussions may have taken place and SMBC then given some indication as to likely solutions for the area, but almost certainly SMBC will have done no work of their own to support such suggestions, which would simply be based on local officer experience of the local ares.

In any respect SMBC cannot simply demand improvements funded by a developer that capacity or safety assessment work does not demonstrate as being necessary. So they can't simply tell ASDA what they want and then necessarily expect to get it.

[admin]

Non-constructive posts of YES and NO campaigners goading each other have been removed from this thread, leaving just the constructive post. Admin.

[Dave]

The truth is we don't know what Walmarts plans for our roads are ! 

Why would a planning applicant have any 'plans for our roads'?  They only put such things in their drawings if the planning authority suggests them.  For example, it will have been planning officers at SMBC, no doubt in consultation with colleagues at Highways, who suggested the new mini-roundabout at Hibbert Lane/Edwards Way.  If anyone is curious about any other possible changes to roads, the place to ask would be at SMBC - ASDA and camsfc will just do whatever the council suggests.