Kevin Dowling: Independent Candidate for Marple North

[wheels]

I can see why you said that,


I can't.

[CllrGeoffAbell]

I can see why you said that, but there is a core belief of councillors that might influence their actions, e.g. in casework that concerns less-well-off residents.

I was in Vancouver a while back, and noted they had councillors with political parties - just not the same as the national ones!  What do you think about that idea?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vancouver_City_Council

[Condate]

Whether you call it party politics or not, anyone making decisions about how a local council should influence its local area is making decisions about political philosophy. It’s much better, both for the clarity of your own decision making and for the knowledge of the voters, to be upfront about what your values are.

Political labels help, rather than hinder, with that.

I don't think they do. Yes, you need to be upfront about what your values are, but the idea that there are only values which match even vaguely one of the main, or indeed minor parties is just not so. I do not know what the Conservative, or Labour, or Lib Dem political philosophy is on most local issues, because there isn't one and doesn't need to be one. The majority of decisions do not involve political philosophy. It tends to be politicians who think they do. Some decisions do; but even then, there are many more opinions than there are political parties.  What's more, on each issue, there are indeed 'parties' among councillors, but for each issue, the membership of these 'parties' vary although all too often, the voting on the issue follows party lines and not the 'party' each councillor follows. Overall, I think that political parties, especially at local level, hinder rather than help debate and good government.
 

[wheels]

Indeed so. Personally, I'd much rather vote for an independent candidate and am reluctant to vote for any candidate who gives a party allegiance (although I'm in Marple South). Indeed, I'd rather every councillor was an independent. However, I'm never going to vote for a candidate simply on the grounds that they are an independent. I need to know what exactly their views are on a range of issues. It's always the specific views of the candidates that matters; not their party label or lack thereof.

Whether you call it party politics or not, anyone making decisions about how a local council should influence its local area is making decisions about political philosophy. It’s much better, both for the clarity of your own decision making and for the knowledge of the voters, to be upfront about what your values are.

Political labels help, rather than hinder, with that.

[K.C.Dowling]

Have you had an answer from the Bredbury Tory yet Kevin.

Not a word, Wheels.

[wheels]

Question for Hannah,

By the way welcome to the website.


You say in your leaflet that you will... protect Marple North from inappropriate residential development.'  What exactly do you mean by 'inappropriate.' I appreciate that it is an open question, so, just to localise it a bit. How would you classify the current/ongoing residential development on Manor Road ?

Have you had an answer from the Bredbury Tory yet Kevin.

[K.C.Dowling]

Which is why I opened my point with "I realise this is a catch 22 situation"

I don't think that anybody is challenging your hypothesis, I'm certainly not, it is as you describe.

I feel as if I am labouring the point and repeating myself and that is probably because I am, but here goes again. The reason a main party candidate is always returned in Marple North is because, we don't have the opportunity to vote for anybody else, other than main party candidates. Well this time we do have that opportunity. If this Independent candidacy is to continue challenging  in future elections and if the Marple North electorate wants it to, then the candidacy needs support from the electorate. We don't have to win, it would be wonderful, of course if we did, but some level of support has to be evident.

i shall sign off now, on this forum, for this election.   

[Howard]

Whilst their is logic and veracity in this viewpoint Howard, as long as it prevails, it will always be hard to effect change.

Which is why I opened my point with "I realise this is a catch 22 situation"

[K.C.Dowling]

Whilst their is logic and veracity in this viewpoint Howard, as long as it prevails, it will always be hard to effect change.

As far as the Libdem/Conservative candidacy is concerned, then don't vote for it.

Even if you fail to make an immediate change, you can make a large dent. If the Independent candidate gets enough support this year then you might have two next year.

What I meant to say also, is if the Independent Candidate doesn't get enough support, then probably next year you won't have any Independents. Marple North is the only ward in the whole of Stockport where an Independent party-less candidate is standing. The whole of Stockport is watching, give them something to look at.

Don't be a Libdem/Tory/Labour sheep again.

[Newbie1]

To return to Kevin's original point, on Thursday, people are voting in local elections, choosing a new councillor, not a new MP. 

A lot of people have been scared by this mantra of "vote anything other than Lib Dem, then you will get a Tory."  I don't know if this is true.  What I do know is that the Conservatives have not tried very hard at all to win any new votes here in Marple North.  The Lib Dems won last time when the Conservatives had a strong, local candidate.  I am also confident to say to those who are afraid of getting a Tory councillor that they certainly won't end up with a Conservative controlled council even if Hannah is elected here in Marple North.

A lot of people have said to me that they really want to vote Green but are afraid to do so.  My advice is just go for it and vote for who you want to on Thursday.  Change is absolutely possible, we just need to be brave enough to attempt to make it happen. 

Whilst on the subject of change in politics, I'd like to send a message to the two men who shouted at me, and shouted me down in Marple on Saturday.   I guess I have to be flattered that you read everything I write, and feel threatened by my one woman campaign when you are fighting with a small army behind you.  You succeeded in making me feel intimidated.  Shame on you. 

[andrewbowden]

PR is the quickest and simplest way to end democracy. It largely enshrines political parties in the system and ends any real sense that individual areas select a man or woman (who may or may not belong to a party) to represent that town, city or area of the county.

Thank goodness then that everyone votes for the individual and not the party, nor the party manifesto...

Oh. 

[Condate]

What we need is proportional representation.  As well as being more representative (the US would not have elected Trump for instance), you get a direct voice for your views, someone can do your casework more honestly (e.g. in questions to ministers) and smaller parties get a share of democracy.

PR is the quickest and simplest way to end democracy. It largely enshrines political parties in the system and ends any real sense that individual areas select a man or woman (who may or may not belong to a party) to represent that town, city or area of the county. That said, the current rather eccentric consituencies do not help. Many no longer really represent logical areas. The point is, what we do at a General Election is choose an individual to represent Hazel Grove and that is all we do. What happens anywhere else is irrelevant. At this local election, we are selecting a person to represent Marple North or Marple South and High Lane. Nothing else.

[Howard]

Absolutely PR is the way. Then independent candidates and smaller, minority parties, will have some voice. The issue is that entrenched interested at national level will never change the status quo as both the two major national parties have a vested interest in the situation remaining the same.

The LDs had their chance to give us a (very poor) version of PR in their coalition and blew it. It was only really the UKIP vote in the 2015 election that brought the issue to national prominence.

Until there is PR in the election I am voting in, I will continue to vote tactically.

[CllrGeoffAbell]

What we need is proportional representation.  As well as being more representative (the US would not have elected Trump for instance), you get a direct voice for your views, someone can do your casework more honestly (e.g. in questions to ministers) and smaller parties get a share of democracy.

[K.C.Dowling]

Whilst their is logic and veracity in this viewpoint Howard, as long as it prevails, it will always be hard to effect change.

As far as the Libdem/Conservative candidacy is concerned, then don't vote for it.

Even if you fail to make an immediate change, you can make a large dent. If the Independent candidate gets enough support this year then you might have two next year.