A6 to Manchester Airport Relief Road

[wheels]

I might agree with a lot of that Dave but I think bad driving is more of a problem than bad cycling. There are as you yourself suggest only a small number of bad bike users, I won't describe them as cyclists, a much greater problem is poor drivers lets deal with that first.

Very often the bad drivers are not even aware they are behaving irresponsibly, I pick for example my own age group the 60+s there can be no doubt that reactions slow down as you pass 60 and I am amazed that we don't retest the 60+s.

Whilst you might accept that cyclists have an equal right to occupy road space as do drivers many don't and are forever suggest that cyclist should not be on the roads. Cycling is not just a leisure activity it's an perfectly reasonable means of everyday transport and generally for any journey under 4 miles is quicker than the car.

[Dave]

Dave you know better than that. Are you suggesting that there no motorists who driver in a reckless and selfish manner, that there are no car drivers who go through red lights or pull up at lights stopping in the cyclists advanced box which has been put there for clear safety reason.

No. I am only saying what I wrote, no more than that, and I agree with everything Simone writes on this subject.  There is currently a particular type of 'death-wish' cyclist, only seen in urban areas (mainly London) who rides in an astonishingly reckless way.  That's all.  And there are also, of course, 'car drivers who go through red lights or pull up at lights stopping in the cyclists advanced box', and I don't condone any of that. 

As for this: 

There are in fact more pedestrians killed on the roads, not the pavements, each year than cyclists but I don't hear any calls for pedestrians to be banned from crossing the road or walking along them say on country lanes.

First, there are far, far more pedestrians on our roads and pavements than there are cyclists, so of course there are more accidents involving pedestrians.  And no-one has seriously suggested banning cyclists from the roads.  But there is a small minority of cyclists who ride in a reckless way which, if they were car drivers, would attract a charge of dangerous driving - for example weaving in and out of traffic, jumping red traffic lights, and threatening to mow down pedestrians who are crossing the road.  I think there is a case for tightening the law so that cyclists are subject to the same expectations of road behaviour as motorists are. 

[wheels]

Simone, A good well balanced post I think, I like your friend have had my best years of cycling, I am 62. But I really don't see why I should change my morning commute because people in cars think I ought to.

The key to making the roads safer is to get more cyclists on them, lets stop pretending it's a dangerous activity and requires special equipment. Just jump on your bike and peddle. If we can increase cycling my 10% that would have a massive impact on road safety

There are in fact more pedestrians killed on the roads, not the pavements, each year than cyclists but I don't hear any calls for pedestrians to be banned from crossing the road or walking along them say on country lanes.

[simonesaffron]

There are of course reckless/inconsiderate people across all walking/cycling/motoring. I am a motorist I try to be safe but sometimes I do silly things, I am not perfect. Some years ago I clipped a cyclist off her bike, I just didn't see her. Fortunately nobody was really hurt. In fact she got back on her bike and rode off but it left me shaken. I remember I didn't drive for a while after.    

The issue for me is about safety not rights, cyclists have as much theoretical rights as anybody else to be on the roads, but we are talking people's lives here. The arterial roads of Stockport are really not a safe place to be for cyclists. This in part is due to inconsiderate/careless motorists and little to do with the cyclists although some of them seem unaware of the dangers, but whosoever it is to do with it still doesn't stop it being there.

I've got 3 friends who have been regular cyclists all their lives. They've all had accidents involving cars.  On of them in his younger days was a competitive, racing cyclist and he reckons he's as good as you can be. He says this stuff that wheels says about being assertive and commanding the roadspace but it didn't stop him having a serious accident where he was hospitalized for a month and told by doctors that he was "fortunate he wasn't permanently disabled. He cycles from Didsbury to Manchester Town Hall every day. He's had several "come offs" he's not a young man but he won't give up his bike. I applaud that in a way but I also realise that he's compromising his own safety. His wife has begged him to stop cycling to/from work but he won't do it.

Surely, anybody can see that the roads of Manchester are not a safe place to cycle at 8am in the morning. There is no safe provision for cyclists and motorists together on most city/town roads. The act of getting on you bike and cycling on them is in itself reckless. You wouldn't roller skate on them so why cycle on them?

[wheels]

Dave you know better than that. Are you suggesting that there no motorists who driver in a reckless and selfish manner, that there are no car drivers who go through red lights or pull up at lights stopping in the cyclists advanced box which has been put there for clear safety reason. Of course there are reckless and selfish cyclists just as there are such motorist but you tackle such selfish individual but attacking all cyclists or motorists.You deal with the offenders.

The key for safe cycling is to be assertive and to lay equal claim to the road space as cars. I cyle into Stockport everyday leaving my car on the drive, that seems to me to be a great contribution to road safety that jumping into a killing machine. WHy don't you join me one day.

As for the nonesense idea that come up now and then of charging cyclists I leave you to monitor and implement that. Just lets be clear that we start charging the car driver for road use as well forget not tha tthe road fund tax was abolished as unwaorkable in 1937.

[Dave]

What a strange question! It's nothing to do with 'rights' (whatever that means), it's simply about safety. Some cyclists, in London and in other major cities, ride seemingly without regard for the safety of themselves and other road users, and this can be a major problem.

[wheels]

What make you drivers think you have more rights to the road than cyclists.

[thebigshed]

I was very lucky not to be knocked over by a very large cyclist in Manchester last night.  It was dark and he had no lights.  I didn't see him and stepped out right in front of him.
 

[Dave]

I think that they should offer cyclists free bus fares at peak - times when everybody is travelling to/from work. This would incentivise cyclists to leave their cycles at home and take the bus. This would make the roads a lot safer for motorists, the pavements a lot safer for pedestrians, not to mention the roads a lot safer for cyclists as they would all be on the bus.

Simone's suggestion may have been tongue-in-cheek, but I think it has serious merits.  In my 40-odd years of driving, one of the biggest changes I've seen has been the advent of the kamikaze cyclist.  As anyone who ever drives in London knows, this is mainly a London thing - you don't get them much round here, apart from a few in the centre of Manchester.  They are youngish, almost entirely male, and they ride at a terrifying speed, weaving in and out of traffic, overtaking, undertaking, in the road, on the pavement, and shouting at any pedestrian who has the impertinence to get in the way.  And the problem is, they are not just endangering their own lives (witness the increase to about 3,000 last year in cyclist deaths and serious injuries), but they are also endangering the lives of the rest of us.  These guys are seriously scary......  

[bluebelly]

we have listened to authoraties for 30 years,thats why this country is in such a mess ! as for silver cars , blue cars id go for that if cyclist wete forbiden to cycle anywhere near roads.

[wheels]

Much better to restrict car useage on certain days as tried else where. SoSilver cars cannot travel on a Tuesday, Blue on a Wednesday etc

[rsh]

I think that they should offer cyclists free bus fares at peak - times when everybody is travelling to/from work. This would incentivise cyclists to leave their cycles at home and take the bus. This would make the roads a lot safer for motorists, the pavements a lot safer for pedestrians, not to mention the roads a lot safer for cyclists as they would all be on the bus.

Wonderful I mean, why authorities have spent about the past 30 years encouraging motorists out of their cars and onto public transport I don't know!

[rsh]

its about time cyclists were taxed for road use and also have some sort of test/licence

I wholeheartedly agree; Taxing each bicycle would after all raise the grand sum of £0 based on their emissions. http://ipayroadtax.com http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-guide/cbg_roadtax.html

As for the road, I think it may actually serve some purpose further along. The bad news is that as usual it's a half-job that will mean precisely south and east Stockport clogged with even more traffic being suddenly dumped off a dual carriageway onto what is practically a rural road system. It desperately needs the extra bypass link around to the Stepping Hill/Sainsbury's stub to stop it from killing Hazel Grove once and for all and provide a junction on Offerton Road to relieve Torkington.

[simonesaffron]

I think they should pay people to cycle to work

They'd have to pay me a lot of money when my commute can be up to 210 miles each way, sometimes more.

I think that they should offer cyclists free bus fares at peak - times when everybody is travelling to/from work. This would incentivise cyclists to leave their cycles at home and take the bus. This would make the roads a lot safer for motorists, the pavements a lot safer for pedestrians, not to mention the roads a lot safer for cyclists as they would all be on the bus.

I also think that all cyclists as part of their cycing proficiency (if such a thing still exists) should visit a town in Holland of comparable size to Stockport and observe and compare. 

[bluebelly]

yes they are