Is there a crisis for Primary School places looming in Marple?

[andy+kirsty]

Furthermore, hasn't the government announced its intention that all schools will be academy status by 2020 ?

They have, in spite of the evidence that shows that chaining a schools legal status doesn't drive improvement. Nicky Morgan was widely ridiculed in the press a number of months ago for introducing the definition of a 'coasting school' into the Education & Adoption bill. She then couldn't define what coasting meant during an interview and had to confirm that a definition was yet to be drafted. We have since learnt that it is any school that doesn't improve between ofsteds.

This means that if a school is inadequate or RI it could be forced to become an academy, if it is good and remains good it could be forced to become an academy, if a school is outstanding and remains outstanding it would be forced to become an academy and forced into a MAT with struggling schools. if you move from good to inadequate, outstanding to good and so on you will be foreced to convert.

Another part of the legislation removed any need to consult with the local community or the LA (who are the enemies of promise) and gives the right to the RSC to impose an IEB (interim executive board) who replace the governors and will decide the fate of the school.

If you have heard about Downhills Primary the chair of the IEB was also the CEO of the Harris Federation, they ended up sponsoring the school, Lord Harris of Peckham was the Tory party treasurer. There have also been a number of similar instances up here where Ofsted inspectors also have paid roles on Academy boards, they 'inspect' schools the suggest they convert and are supported by their chain.

The whole fragmentation of the service has been abused extensively, more so down south than up here, but, the running down of schools and teachers has many parallels with other public services before they are privatised.

Whilst some will balk at the idea, the NUT have produced some very detailed research under the banner of EduFacts, a number of very prominent educational figures as well as serving head teachers have written papers about the unintended consequences of current government policy and the impact it will have on our kids.

you can visit it at https://www.teachers.org.uk/edufacts

[corium]

Further to my previous post managed to dig this up from an old Guardian article:

"...As birthrates dropped in the 1990s, the number of children in state primary schools in England and Wales peaked in 1999 at 4.3 million and began to fall in 2000, reaching a low of 3.95 million in 2009. But since 2002 birthrates have been rising. In 2010, the number of primary school pupils began to increase. By 2015 it was estimated there would be 4.39 million, a rise of around 10% compared to 2011. By 2020 this will grow to 4.8 million, 20% higher than the figure for 2011.

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These government figures are now thought to be an underestimate after census figures were higher than expected. But the child bulge could not have come at a worse time for local authorities. The government scaled back school-building programmes immediately after the election in 2010, and maintenance, repair and expansion projects were shelved..."

[corium]

Going back to the original question & the point Ringi makes it's a national issue as I understand there is a population bulge working it's way through the education system - I have e feeling it's currently at c years 3/4 but others might know more definitively. I say bulge but don't have the data to say whether this is a one off or a longer term increase given the population is rising overall. I do remember it being raised as an issue when Marple Hall were looking at adding a 6th form as there was an argument Stockport was overprovided with 6th form places at the time.

[simonesaffron]

Furthermore, hasn't the government announced its intention that all schools will be academy status by 2020 ?

[andy+kirsty]

Dave is indeed right

Whilst the legal duty to ensure that every child who is of compulsory education age residing within the LA boundary has a place within a school rests with that LA, since the coalition government the LA is prohibited from opening new schools, if they need to provide places there are limited options open to them.

The can extend an existing school - those who are familiar with the geography of the area will know that this isn't really a solution.

A free school could be established, sponsored by big business or another Academy Chain - many have been established and many have failed, it has wasted billions in education funding.

or, as in Kent a school could establish a satellite campus - although I imagine this route is reserved for Grammars only.

The Gove approach to education has been a disaster and very few have really understood what it has meant, essentially market forces, privatization, faux competition, forced academisation and the removal of any democracy. All under the umbrella of 'rigor' and school improvement. However, as Ofsted and the DfE have just confirmed, schools that become Academies are more likely to remain inadequate 1

So, the only Academy near by, Mellor Primary, with the help of the LA was 'Outstanding', now it is 'Good' and has no support from the LA as it opted out, so faces the prospect of being sponsored if deemed to be coasting, or, spending vast sums of cash on consultants to make it improve, Ludworth on the other hand has been and remains Outstanding and Rose Hill is steadily improving.

As a parent my real concern is that we are fast moving to a US model of standardised tests, a focus on what can be measured rather than what children need to stimulate their minds.

1 https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/breaking-news/schools-become-sponsored-academies-are-more-likely-stay-inadequate

[ringi]

Is this a long term problem, or are there just more children wishing to start school over 1 or 2 years due to people moving into new homes?

As people seem to remain in Marple for a long time once they have moved here we could have the “new homes” not having any children in them for 30 or 40 years once the current lot have left school.

[Dave]

I don't think that it is so much an SMBC situation as a central government issue.

Simone has put her finger on the nub of the issue.  Thanks to the centralising policies of recent governments, local authorities have precious little to do with running schools nowadays, apart from being a conduit for funding.

Simone also writes:

it would be interesting to Hear what Marple's own Councillor Shan Alexander has to say on the subject as she is the current Executive portfolio holder

However, because central government has progressively stripped LAs of their powers and responsibilities over education, what Cllr Alexander might have to say on the issue is probably not very important (no offence to the excellent councillor!).

The current government policy on the establishment of new schools (and all the evidence is that this is what we are going to need) is given here:  https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/270471/guidance_on_establishing_new_maintained_schools.pdf

So the presumption is that any new school in Marple would not be run by Stockport MBC, but would be an academy or a free school.  And the process would be driven not by the local authority, but by the regional schools commissioner, who is:    https://www.gov.uk/government/people/vicky-beer

Welcome to the wacky world of Tory education policy! 

[Howard]

Yep, I was looking for that one and couldn't find it. My post definitely fits there so it would make sense to merge them.

Edit: and done...

[admin]

This has been coming for some time, see this thread from 2013. I wondered whether I should merge the two actually but haven't at the moment:

http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=4964.0

[simonesaffron]

I think that the new Rosehill school has accommodated the places that were lost by the closure of The Dale and Peacefield, but even a school the size of Rosehill  must be straining at capacity levels now.

Nevertheless Howard a point well made. I don't think that it is so much an SMBC situation as a central government issue. The problem was seemingly resolved with the Labour Government's Building Schools for Future programme, but that was halted when the Conservatives came to power.

However you look at it though, more school places are needed and as you say with the planned housing programme (that is just the one that we know about ) it will be interesting to know where and how they are going to be conjured up.

From an SMBC point of view it would be interesting to Hear what Marple's own Councillor Shan Alexander has to say on the subject as she is the current Executive portfolio holder and has been for the last 3/4 years.

   

[Howard]

I unavoidably eavesdropped on a conversation yesterday amongst a group of people discussing the situation with Marple's primary schools. It seems all the primary schools in the area are at their limits for numbers of pupils. Obviously Peacefield and The Dale are now gone. However, there are new family houses on the Peacefield site and a new large estate opposite it. The "Printers" estate in Strines is in the Marple catchment area and I hear that residents on Walton Drive opposite the Dale Primary school site have been informed that what was originally going to be 15 houses is now 18 houses. Along with the Hibbert Lane project there are significant numbers of new houses in Marple.

One of the conversants was either a health visitor or a midwife and amusingly referred to the new estates as "baby factories". When these children need primary education where are they going to go if all the schools in Marple are at their limit? It seems that Stockport MBC have misjudged the situation.

Edit; new estates built in Marple's catchment area in the last five years:
Strines "Printers" estate
Peacefield site
New estate opposite Peacefield site
To come: Hibbert Lane
To come: Dale Site

[admin]

I have a brilliant idea!!!

Why not build a new school on the 'old' college site on Hibbert Lane? It would be a perfect site for a school, it has a large area suitable for a playing/football field etc.

It is a good idea, and it is one that Cllr Andrew Bispham suggested at the last Area Committee meeting (when the supermarket proposals were recommended to be refused) although not many seem to have picked up on what he was saying. I think Cllr Kev's barn-storming speech went down so well that not many paid attention to what Cllr Bispham said afterwards.

[the rover]

You do not have to live in a school catchment area to attend any more. All schools are dreadful for parking. Romiley Primary School has not got enough places, children are also going to schools in Bredbury. Greave Primary has children from Hyde, Godley and Bredbury. I believe there has been a baby boom and shortly primary school places will get even tighter.

This is broadening out from the original topic of parking now so I may break out a separate thread but Bramble makes a good point about the longer term problem of school places.

As most will know, not long ago the council decided that we no longer needed as many primary schools as we had due to a decline in demand - the birth rate was falling apparently - so they consolidated with a new school at Rose Hill and Peacefield, a site that (I think) had good potential for expansion, was demolished and houses are currently being built on the site.

I have recently had a couple of informal conversations with local councillors that suggests exactly the opposite of what was predicted is now happening and there is a significant increase in demand developing. In an interesting aside - Mrs Admin suggested that the prediction was bonkers at the time and she told Cllr Shan Alexander that at one of her surgeries in the Library. I remember saying to her afterwards that they must have done proper studies etc - but clearly I was wrong, or the studies were wrong and it would be better to trust the judgement of a childminding grandmother with her finger on the pulse.

So anyway, we now seem to be heading for a crisis in demand for school places. I have some indirect experience of this in that a young couple with two children who are friends with my own kids decided to look at buying on the new development on Cross Lane (Park Paterson site) - they liked the houses but apparently when they made enquiries about school places for their children they were told that Rose Hill is nearly full so they may have to use High Lane. In fact I understand that it was suggested they might get one of them in at Rose Hill but the other would have to go to High Lane. Needles to say, they no longer dream of moving to Marple.

So how bad is this crisis going to be? Does anyone have access to any proper facts, figures and predictions? And what is going to be done about it?

I have a brilliant idea!!!

Why not build a new school on the 'old' college site on Hibbert Lane? It would be a perfect site for a school, it has a large area suitable for a playing/football field etc.

[admin]

You do not have to live in a school catchment area to attend any more. All schools are dreadful for parking. Romiley Primary School has not got enough places, children are also going to schools in Bredbury. Greave Primary has children from Hyde, Godley and Bredbury. I believe there has been a baby boom and shortly primary school places will get even tighter.

This is broadening out from the original topic of parking now so I have broken out a separate thread but Bramble makes a good point about the longer term problem of school places.

As most will know, not long ago the council decided that we no longer needed as many primary schools as we had due to a decline in demand - the birth rate was falling apparently - so they consolidated with a new school at Rose Hill and Peacefield, a site that (I think) had good potential for expansion, was demolished and houses are currently being built on the site.

I have recently had a couple of informal conversations with local councillors that suggests exactly the opposite of what was predicted is now happening and there is a significant increase in demand developing. In an interesting aside - Mrs Admin suggested that the prediction was bonkers at the time and she told Cllr Shan Alexander that at one of her surgeries in the Library. I remember saying to her afterwards that they must have done proper studies etc - but clearly I was wrong, or the studies were wrong and it would be better to trust the judgement of a childminding grandmother with her finger on the pulse.

So anyway, we now seem to be heading for a crisis in demand for school places. I have some indirect experience of this in that a young couple with two children who are friends with my own kids decided to look at buying on the new development on Cross Lane (Park Paterson site) - they liked the houses but apparently when they made enquiries about school places for their children they were told that Rose Hill is nearly full so they may have to use High Lane. In fact I understand that it was suggested they might get one of them in at Rose Hill but the other would have to go to High Lane. Needles to say, they no longer dream of moving to Marple.

So how bad is this crisis going to be? Does anyone have access to any proper facts, figures and predictions? And what is going to be done about it?

[Bramble]

You do not have to live in a school catchment area to attend any more. All schools are dreadful for parking. Romiley Primary School has not got enough places, children are also going to schools in Bredbury. Greave Primary has children from Hyde, Godley and Bredbury. I believe there has been a baby boom and shortly primary school places will get even tighter.

Why are children travelling to Rose Hill School from Romiley and Offerton when there are perfectly good primary schools in those areas?

This new thread has been broken out from the topic about car parking at Rose Hill School - Admin