Jolly Sailor Appeal

[Lisa Oldham]

in addition.  from the detailed plans it looked very much like that very expensive kerb job will be put back to exactly as it used to be - though that might be wrong.  

They did some great drawings of bin vans going into it... proving thay can - in a perfect scenario -  When or if it happens I tihnk that will be quite a laugh

[Lisa Oldham]

That depends on whether you think Stockport legal dept did a good job.  I wasnt there but I did read the appeal paperwork.  my personal opinion is they may have spent too much time on the wrong thing more a  legal issue rather than a planning issue.  From what Scott says they spent a lot of time claiming a link between the company and another company who had the right to buy the property next door... This particular issue is not something the inspector is allowed to consider.. its not in his or her remit.  I dont think stockport as a whole has a fantastic record on Public inquiries..  however cant blame the councillors for this though they could give the relative depts a kick up the bum.

On the other hand theres no use harping on about the incompetence of councillors they did turn up for meetings and they did vote.  they made the effort.
I was not involved in the start of the Jolly campaign as I didnt move back to Marple until May however got involved in July.  After that I was at the majoritiy of the campaign meetings (an almost weekly event), I was at the clear up of the site where many of the cleaners were kids. There were less people there at all those events than have posted here saying they are upset about it.  Actions speak louder than words.  Scott asked continually for help from people and it wasnt at all forth coming (apologies to those very few here that did ) If you want something done then do it.  there s time, they havent knocked it down, they are open to suggestions they know thier plans may come up against volatile opposition.  Make them an offer they cant refuse. Get out there and do something..Lobby , Protest, write letters to the paper, approach the developers, organise some event that will upset the developers, do some research to find some contacts who may have some sway... write to the developers. Theres lots you can still do but dont expect posting on this (extremely wonderful) forum will change things
Getting off your backsides will do that

 

[Belly]

Just to respond to the post from Denisea - The council did try to stop it! They turned down the application - thats all the power that they have.

It was an independent Planning Inspector from the HMI that approved the appeal! Stockport MBC have to abide by his decision I'm afraid. So don't blame them this time.
 

[alastair]

cant we start a protest group and picket the demolition people and write loads of letters!!

IT IS A TRUE DEVESTATION THAT MY FIRST DRINKING HOLE SHOULD BE KNOCKED DOWN - AM APPALLED.


no seriously that pub has been there for more years than I can assume - lets try our hardest

[Denisea]

Very disappointed to see this decision.  Another blow for the heritage of Marple.  I thought we had finished demolishing buildings of interest in the area.  When will the Council stop this destruction?

Am quite curious though about the wheel washing facilities.  Conjures visions of elderly sqeegee pests trying to clean your car while waiting at the traffic lights on Station Road.

[Harry]

It was reported in the Stockport Times a week or so ago. I was under the impression that it wasn't the council's fault. They refused permission, it went to appeal and the council were overruled.

Following is extracted from a report titled 'Appeal Decisions and Current Planning Appeals' dated 9th January on the Stockport Council website.

Quote

Jolly Sailor. Station Road. Marple    Demolition of existing buildings and erection of 25 1-bed and 14 2-bed Category II sheltered flats for the elderly, house manager's accommodation, landscaping and car parking.    Decision: Allowed subject to approval of details of materials, landscaping, drainage, access, car parking, and turning areas, the reallignment of the kerb at the junction of Stockport Road and Station Road, external lighting, and wheel washing facilities, also to use only as category II sheltered housing for occupation by persons of 60 or over (a joint occupier must be 55 or more), and to archaeological works.    Determined by: Area Committee    DEED recommendation: Grant    Application for costs against Council: Allowed in part in respect of the refusal for not meeting car parking standard.    The inspector considered that the Council had been unreasonable in not having  due regard to the appellant's information on parking requirements for their  developments, the accessibility of the site to local facilities and public transport which would minimise the need for residents to have cars. In assessing the impact of parking on highway safety the Council had not taken account of waiting  restrictions on Station Road nor was it able to show that the levels of on-street parking were inadequate. The Council was unable to demonstrate exceptional reasons for requiring the developer to provide more car parking than they themselves proposed.    The delegation arrangements provide for such costs to be borne by the Area Committee. The appellant has not yet submitted a claim for costs. The amount will be reported when the claim as been received.

Perhaps I'm wrong but I read in that:

The kerb outside the Jolly, which was only recently completed, has to be moved.
Because of its location, the residents will not need cars (elderly people are quite capable of carrying a weeks shopping)
There is plenty of on-street parking in the area

I wonder what colour the sun is on the planet this inspector lives on.

[alastair]

Sorry when was a decision made seemed to have missed that if it has been made then where can I find out about it!

well done Stockport council for once again letting a little bit of Marples history vanish and for not taking note of the residents who objected in such a strong manner(well done to them)at this rate there will be no history left in Marple or pubs!
well i think you should be able to claim a few more pounds for turning up and for voting for the flats to be built and then telling us there was no other way!
Stockport council has no thought for its locals they only see Pound signs....

[Lisa Oldham]

Scott stood up and did his bit at the 2 day public inquiry. I think hes immensly brave as it was all done in a rush and hed had no experience and I dont think (I might be wrong) there were many people there supporting him)

From what he says he thinks he did a fair job and so did the council. Basically they are trying to get away with giving well below the required amount of car parking spaces arguing that old people dont drive cars!! Part of their plans seemed to be to change back some of the changes the council have just spent tonnes on!!
We argued that its contrary to the Stokcport UDP as wellas the national guideliens... You are not supposed to place old people where its hard to get to the shops doctors etc

It could go either way. If we win then on to the next stage and try and get some business backing.. Theres lots of money making, money attracting, ideas being thrown around but we need someone who can put a business plan together to help wiuth this..
If we lose then Id advise Scott to take legal action against the planning inspectorate based on the fact he can get legal aid at the moment. that will stop them building but it may not stop them knocking the Jolly down..
Found out a few things when the other sides docs came through... Ive always thought the steps outside the jolly were listed... turns out they are not and the developers had according to their documentation agreed with the council and the local historical society to donate them to a local park - how considerate!

As foir the future of the jolly... (just to stop the forum being quiet anymore)

I dont think we stand a chance of getting a community centre or heritage centre..I honstly dont think theres enough interest in that sort of thing HOWEVER do beleive you can incorporate certain community issues into any business plan.  Ideas that have been mentioned to me are a cafe bar type thing/restaurant... people come and eat for the first half of the night and then the tables are pushed back and people can have a dance.  this sort of thing is very popular in places like bramall, hazel grove poynton... This would atract  people like myself with young families etc rahter than the kids.  At the moment we always have to travel out to places for this sort of venue.  To help the youth situation we could then do the same as in poynton stockport etc have youth nights(13-16). Shut the bar and have a soft drinks bar open and a bit of dancing - again this is very popular in other villages.
Theres also room for a seperate restaurant - maybe have speciality nights
Then theres upstairs... theres loads of room up there which could be used for a venue room.. The only half decent place I know of for parties etc in Marple is the Con club and the curtains and tables and bar in there are the same ones they had at my 21st (..teen years ago). The venue room could be used for community issues, craft nights , dance classes, youth entertainment, Heritage centre, art exhibitions etc

All we need is loads of money

I bet there'll be comments  '>

[Norris]

So what the hell is going on with the Jolly Sailor then? Has anything been decided? Old People flats i presume, at least the post office is kept open and busy with pension collections!!!

Just a shame about all the extra old people in cars blocking up the roads and taking a lifetime over parking!!

[Harry]

A notice has been attached to the Jolly Sailor.

Evidently there is a meeting scheduled for 10:00 AM on 5th November to discuss the appeal by McCarthy & Stone. This will be in the Town Hall and the public are welcome.

[admin]

Delighted to see that Scott and his team managed to get their statement together in time. There also seem, to me anyway, to be some very good arguements put forward.

Scott says that they now need to put together a full statement of their case by 22nd October.  This will be the full arguments, including submissions of all evidence.

If anyone can offer any help or advice, please do.....

Click here to see the Statement on behalf of Jolly Well Save It!

WELL DONE SCOTT!!

Its getting desparate for time now isn't it?
On the legal side, just a stab in the dark try George Cope. He was until recent years a practicing solicitor in Marple and is now Secretary of Marple, New Mills & District Rotary club so he has strong community links. His Phone Number given on the Rotary Club site is: 0161 320 0430.
My only other suggestion if this fails is to tramp around as many local solicitors offices as possible, (be sure to actually go in person as it is more effective than phoning), and just press them for help.
I'm sorry if I'm teaching you to suck eggs.

Good Luck.

[Scott]

Another thing, does anyone know anybody that was involved in the succsessfull defeating of the appeal to build flats on hollins lane (about no. 22ish) in marple bridge? supossedly a locally living Q.C was involved in the legal side of things.

[Scott]

post anything here that u think maybe relivent to  the appeal.  If you want to discuss topics in person then come allong to our meeting on tue 1st of oct in the spring gardens pub at 7:30

If u know somone with legal/planning knowledge feel free to bribe/blackmail/beat them into commming and helping out!

Can anyone tell me exactly what we have to submit by friday?  Is it our statments of the points we wish to raise? or is it the whole of our arguments in the entireity?