Congestion Charge, how will you vote, what do you think?

[Taurus]

I know of a few passengers who do that but forgot to add it in my post. The train fare from New Mills must be significantly dearer for it to work out cheaper for people to drive to Marple station.

[Dave]

I would love to know also where they are going to "park" all these trains that are going to be leaving Marple every 15 mins?

The trains don't need to be 'parked' - they will run out from Piccadilly to Marple, turn round and go straight back.  At present two of the three trains per hour do exactly that.

I think most cars at Marple station are from people who live at the bottom end of Marple i.e near Rosehill station but drive to Marple station because the Rosehill service is so bad which I can understand, the other cars are from people who are just too bone idle to walk!

Maybe, but a significant proportion of those who park at Marple come from 'over the hill' - New Mills, Hayfield etc.  This is partly because the service from Marple is more frequant than it is from New Mills, but mainly because Marple is inside Greater Manchester and the train fare is therefore significantly cheaper

[Taurus]

This household will be voting YES!

Most small towns are lucky to have 1 train station but Marple is lucky to have 2 train stations, 1 is overused and the other underused. Marple station car parks are always full, Rosehill car park is always empty. I think most cars at Marple station are from people who live at the bottom end of Marple i.e near Rosehill station but drive to Marple station because the Rosehill service is so bad which I can understand, the other cars are from people who are just too bone idle to walk! Sort Rosehill station out with 4 trains per hour at peak times and 2 an hour at every other time and that will solve the parking and volume of passengers at Marple station. If you read the proposals, it actually does mention Rosehill station.

[Neil Smith]

'The service between Manchester Piccadilly and Marple, via Bredbury, would run every quarter of an hour under the TIF proposals.

I would love to know also where they are going to "park" all these trains that are going to be leaving Marple every 15 mins? I agree with Barbara where are they going to find all these parking spaces in all the stations along the Marple to Manchester line?

[alison]

I get the train from Davenport - the frequency during the day is fine - the trains are all two carriage jobbies that cannot easily be lengthened. half of them are falling apart, they regularly break down and get cancelled, they have no heatingin the winter sometimes - and bizarrly heating on full blast in the summer, and as stated before even at 7 in the morning they are standing room only by the time they leave Heaton Chapel. Going home is even worse, as anyone who has travelled on the 16.37 to Buxton can attest.

I do not believe that the CC will make that situation any better, it will probably be worse, and the CC zone is far too wide and will badly affect Stockport businesses. In my humble opinion its unjust, ill conceived and unwelcome. Still a no from me

[Barbara]

I will believe the extra rolling stock (and not clapped-out rubbish cascaded down from other areas) and better frequency of service when it happens!  Maybe I am just an old cynic, but I know that you have to catch a train earlier than you really need to, just in case yours is cancelled!!  And the parking is just a nightmare.  More and more cars are left all day all over the surrounding areas - just inside Winnington Road is a favourite, far too close to the junction.  And I wonder where they are going to find the extra land in Romiley to increase the park and ride service there?  Its all 'pie in the sky' !   

[Dave]

No new rolling stock is proposed

Well it depends what you mean by 'new'.  If you mean 'additional' (as opposed to brand new and smelling of paint!) then that's not correct.    This is an excerpt from the rail proposals for the Stockport area: 

'The service between Manchester Piccadilly and Marple, via Bredbury, would run every quarter of an hour under the TIF proposals.   There would be extra seats on peak-time rail services to reduce overcrowding with station improvements at Bramhall, Woodsmoor, Reddish North, Brinnington, Bredbury and Rosehill.'

Increasing frequency alone, from the present three trains per hour to four trains per hour, will require additional rolling stock, and will increase capacity by 33%.  On top of that, we are promised extra seats - i.e. more carriages - on peak time services.   

So there will be more rolling stock and significantly increased capacity.  But what bothers me is where will these additional passengers park?  Parking anywhere near Marple station on a weekday is already very difficult, and I'm not aware of any plan to expand the car parks.   

[Neil Smith]

What makes me laugh is that they are saying they will run more buses, more routes and trains but is this just what they did years ago before stopping several services and routes!!!! I think this CC has been in the planning for a very long time. The people that think that it will not cost them are SSOOOOOOO wrong, if they get a tradesman for example and he has to cross the zone he will not be paying, it will be you as the customer.

Its a big fat NO from me.

[CTCREP]

I wonder if you vote Yes, then as Stockport is outside the ring, will it then become a honey pot for all businesses who don't want to have to cross the ring. As Manchester residents don't have to pay when travelling out in the morning etc. then could Stockport Town Centre then rival The Trafford Centre?  That might even be a reason to Vote No

[Dave]

putting the whole charge on the inner ring into central Manchester would make the whole idea more palatable.

Agreed

[alison]

I own a car, but don't use it for communing - its walking and train for me.

The proposals have no real benefit for me - in fact I think things will get worse. The trains I get are already overcrowded - certain trains often dangerously so. So if more people leave their cars at home and get the train the situation just gets worse. No new rolling stock is proposed and the recent cave in by the government on trains having to stop at stockport will put even more people on the local trains. I start work really early to avoid the worst of the crush, but even so the trains are completely full at 7am. Often on the Buxton line people cannot get on the train as it is so chocca.

I deally I would love to see more people use public transport - but as to this proposal I will be voting no (I have a feeling that my vote will make no difference though)

Alison

[moorendman]

Thanks for the link Dave re car ownership. However it dates from 2001 and car ownership has increased since then , and secondly the data relates to car ownership not access to a vehicle. Also the 30% figure fro Greater Manchester in that document is distorted in itself by the apparent low ownership in Manchester.

I was wrong to write that those without a car "couldn't care less" - I should have expressed my view more clearly; it will not cost them anything and they will only "gain". They will also enjoy the added benefit of the removal of a desire to own a car because of the increased manchester running cost of the CC.

Your final point relates to the "only offer on the table" Is that any way to react to a blatant "take it or leave it" offer? If it is rejected there will be alternatives. There are many alternatives now that would cost little money including more thought about traffic management in central Manchester, the bus lane concept, more regulation of buses etc

The worst congestion in Marple occurs during the school year and I would be surprised to see any congestion charges for crossing the M60 deterring people who are clogging the roads on the school runs.

I would perhaps support the concept myself if not for the M60 outer ring charge - putting the whole charge on the inner ring into central Manchester would make the whole idea more palatable.

[Dave]

Where does that 30% figure come from?

Those "30%" also couldn't care less because it will cost them nothing.

The figure comes from here. http://www.manchester.gov.uk/downloads/KF12_Car_Ownership.pdf

And I should imagine those without a car care very much, because even more than the rest of us, they will benefit greatly from improvements in public transport.

Belly wrote 'I'd like to vote no due to the pathetic benefits to Marple, but I suspect I'll vote yes as I actually support the concept'.  That's exactly how I feel.  With all its flaws, the plan on the table is the only one on offer.  If we reject it there will be no plan B, and for the foreseeable future we will simply have to put up with second rate public transport and ever-increasing congestion.  And we shall have only ourselves to blame. 

[amazon]

Will a regular direct bus service to Manchester be in the proposals?
[/quote
                        If So Would Take A Week To Get There

[moorendman]

In reality there are very few of these people. Most who claim this, actually have effectively chosen a lifestyle that is dependent on a car.

What about the 30% of GM residents who don't own a car?

Where does that 30% figure come from? And thats "own" a car not have access to one. For the remainder, have many of them not also made a lifestyle choice? eg I work in central Manchester so I will buy a flat in the city centre.

Those "30%" also couldn't care less because it will cost them nothing.