Tesco / ASDA !!!

[Miss Marple]

Hi Guy
People from Marple in Action will be looking at that, there is a wide range of knowledge within the group so it is hoped that the information will be sourced before  the councillors meeting on Wed evening. It was mention last night from someone living near ,the college that there is a possible link to Macnair gifting the land, but at this moment in time this is all hearsay  

[guy]

I think establishing whether or not there is a covenant on the land that restricts future use will be a key factor in the campaigning group's efforts to halt the Tesco plan. It is heartening that covenants were evoked re park keepers cottage in Memorial Park - I wonder if the local council enforced that? It would be great if the person from the action group responsible for checking out the covenant will have the info available in time for the area committee meeting, where council officials are present, so they can ask the council people exactly how they will enforce the covenant on the college land if there is one.

[admin]

what we really need to know is who owns that land, was it a gift to the people, LA or the College. 

The college will be the owner of the land.  Sixth form colleges are 'owned' by autonomous corporations, which are completely independent of local authorities, although they usually have one or two local councillors on their boards.  You can read the minutes of past corporation meetings on the camsfc website. 

You are right Dave but there are stories that the land now owned by the college was gifted to the people of Marple in the past, rather like Memorial Park and the Recreation Ground. Both of those have covenants on them preventing the land being used for certain specified purposes and these can be quite powerful. It was the covenant on Memorial Park that prevented the park keepers cottage being sold for profit, or leased for business use. What people are trying to discover is whether there are similar covenants on this land and if the stories are true. There are also rumours that the green field and the car park areas cannot be built on. Opponents of the sale to a supermarket need to establish the truth about these rumours to determine if these things will help to fight the sale. Even if they don't, the facts may give support to the argument that the college has a moral obligation to consult with the community before it sells the land.

[Dave]

what we really need to know is who owns that land, was it a gift to the people, LA or the College. 

The college will be the owner of the land.  Sixth form colleges are 'owned' by autonomous corporations, which are completely independent of local authorities, although they usually have one or two local councillors on their boards.  You can read the minutes of past corporation meetings on the camsfc website. 

[Duke Fame]

Irreverent post overwritten. Admin

[Johnnyboy]

Hi Belly last nights meeting was very informative, we heard experiences of how really it could be too late once a supermarket say Tesco purchases the site.  There were people at the meeting who gave experiences of Tesco just purchasing the land, refused planning, demolishing the buildings and opening the land up as a free car park with just a chain fence round , full of holes and left in a state of disrepair.  It was left like that until local residents were begging the LA to have the eyesore developed, then Tesco in this instance gained planning permission a built their store.   All I do know is no one can stop Tesco purchasing the Land but what we really need to know is who owns that land, was it a gift to the people, LA or the College.  Neil Corrie is attempting to find out this information via FOI and other people at the meeting are possibly at this min trying to find the answer

Tesco did something similar were I used to live

[Miss Marple]

Hi Belly last nights meeting was very informative, we heard experiences of how really it could be too late once a supermarket say Tesco purchases the site.  There were people at the meeting who gave experiences of Tesco just purchasing the land, refused planning, demolishing the buildings and opening the land up as a free car park with just a chain fence round , full of holes and left in a state of disrepair.  It was left like that until local residents were begging the LA to have the eyesore developed, then Tesco in this instance gained planning permission a built their store.   All I do know is no one can stop Tesco purchasing the Land but what we really need to know is who owns that land, was it a gift to the people, LA or the College.  Neil Corrie is attempting to find out this information via FOI and other people at the meeting are possibly at this min trying to find the answer

[Belly]

I think Marple Syrup makes some valid points, but this one:

Should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.

....makes little sense to me.  Why would anyone from Hazel Grove or the Bredbury/Woodley area, with big supermarkets on their doorstep, come out to Marple to do their shopping?  

And as for the notion that the population of Marple is too small to support a major supermarket, I can't agree.  If Whaley Bridge (pop c. 6,000) can have its own supermarket, surely Marple (pop c.23,000) can!  

Dave, we are talking about a major supermarket here.  Traffic from the fringes of Hazel Grove, definitely High Lane, Disley, Marple Bridge and the edges of Woodley would most definitely come into Marple to use a major Tesco Extra.  Tesco is the number one Uk supermarket for a reason, and if they didn't intend to compete with the likes of Bredbury Morrisons they wouldn't be looking at the site.  You can pick holes in the peripheral geographical areas I quoted all you like, but take the point.

Whaley Bridge draws on an extended population from the surrounding areas clearly.  I'm not saying that Marple isn't big enough to support a supermarket at all.  But if you think Tesco only intend to draw on that 23k population I'd be surprised.  And if your prediction on traffic improving as a result of a massive Tesco turns out to be true, I don't think 'surprise' would quite cover it!

Who said it would be a 'major' supermarket of the size of an 'extra' store? These 'grocers' size their stores based on the available population catchment, which in the case of Marple, given all the other competing stores, is quite fierce. Dave's analysis seems to be based in reality....

If I have been ignorant, please forgive me.  I made an assumption on the basis that they are looking at paying £12m for a very large site.  Am not sure what Dave is basing his analysis on, but my theory, that IF it is a large store then traffic would be vey badly affected, is based in reality.
I'd suggest that if it was a relatively small to moderately sized store, there would be much less opposition and also perhaps a different site considered than a geographically large site requiring extensive demolition and rebuilding, running costs into tens of millions. 
Again, it feels like you're nitpicking at minor points (woe betide the mention of the word Extra to make you disregard the rest of my post) but in essence... Large-ish supermarket=more traffic.  Don't think I can say any more on it.

Hope you don't think I was having a pop.

In reality almost 20 pages of forum comments have been generated about a scheme that, in reality no-one knows much about - except that it might be a supermarket of some description. My view is not to panic too much about things that have yet to be put forward and wait to see what the details are.

Whatever the proposal, if the site is allocated for housing, any supermarket developer is going to have a fight on its hands to go against the development plan and get permission. It could be a long and drawn out process, with no guarantee of success.

On a differet tack, some of the comments criticising the Council about lack of information are very unfair. There is no compulsion on the Council to reveal pre-planning discussions at this stage, particularly as I suspect much of these are likely to have taken place in commercial confidence. Until a planning application is formally lodged it is not a 'live' scheme and details are likely to remain sketchy. Residents will then have 8 (more likely 16 weeks) to review the details and make our comments. By all means get organised and ready, but don't shoot the messeger, you may need their help at some stage.

[Dave]

Dave, we are talking about a major supermarket here.  Traffic from the fringes of Hazel Grove, definitely High Lane, Disley, Marple Bridge and the edges of Woodley would most definitely come into Marple to use a major Tesco Extra.  Tesco is the number one Uk supermarket for a reason, and if they didn't intend to compete with the likes of Bredbury Morrisons they wouldn't be looking at the site.  You can pick holes in the peripheral geographical areas I quoted all you like, but take the point.

Whaley Bridge draws on an extended population from the surrounding areas clearly.  I'm not saying that Marple isn't big enough to support a supermarket at all.  But if you think Tesco only intend to draw on that 23k population I'd be surprised.  And if your prediction on traffic improving as a result of a massive Tesco turns out to be true, I don't think 'surprise' would quite cover it!

1.  I'm no expert, but my impression is that the Hibbert Lane campus of camsfc is much smaller in area than that of the nearest Tesco  'Extra' (Portwood), or indeed the Bredbury Morrisons or the Hazel Grove Sainsbury's.  Given the need to have a decent sized car park, my guess is that a new supermarket on that site would be no bigger than the Tesco at Whaley Bridge, and would probably not be a 24-hour mega-store, simply for reasons of lack of space.

2.  Another guess: the vast majority of the customers at Tesco's Whaley Bridge come from Whaley Bridge, New Mills and Disley.  The combined populations of those three places add up to less than that of Marple!  My view remains that  most customers at a new supermarket in Marple would be from Marple and the immediately surrounding villages, and that the net effect on traffic congestion in Offerton and Bredbury would be a reduction.   

[Miss Marple]

Just to say a huge thank you to all who attended tonights meeting at such short notice.  Next Wed will be an important meeting whereby questions can be put to our MP.   A Representative from The Coop head office was present so I took the opportunity after the meeting to inform her about comments which had been raised on the forum IE empty shelves and over priced goods which she will be feeding back to head office.  The coop were also informed that they really needed to allow Hanburys to be used by another retail company and that the current situation had in a way been brought about by their monopoly in Marple.  
It will be interesting to see how the MBF votes in their meeting in Aug, it would be nice if we were all singing from the same hymn sheet.
Once again thank you for attending the meeting and I have noted the apologies of those who due to such short notice were unable to attend  WHAT A TEAM !
I hope we can succeed in our objective because it would be awful if we lost our local shops.  Marple without Whites the butchers  bacon  ( salted and cured)  unthinkable    Fantastic stuff

[marple_syrup]

I think Marple Syrup makes some valid points, but this one:

Should traffic from High Lane, Hazel Grove, and particularly Romiley, Woodley, and Bredbury start coming to Marple to shop the effect on traffic in Marple would be absolutely monumental.

....makes little sense to me.  Why would anyone from Hazel Grove or the Bredbury/Woodley area, with big supermarkets on their doorstep, come out to Marple to do their shopping?  

And as for the notion that the population of Marple is too small to support a major supermarket, I can't agree.  If Whaley Bridge (pop c. 6,000) can have its own supermarket, surely Marple (pop c.23,000) can!  

Dave, we are talking about a major supermarket here.  Traffic from the fringes of Hazel Grove, definitely High Lane, Disley, Marple Bridge and the edges of Woodley would most definitely come into Marple to use a major Tesco Extra.  Tesco is the number one Uk supermarket for a reason, and if they didn't intend to compete with the likes of Bredbury Morrisons they wouldn't be looking at the site.  You can pick holes in the peripheral geographical areas I quoted all you like, but take the point.

Whaley Bridge draws on an extended population from the surrounding areas clearly.  I'm not saying that Marple isn't big enough to support a supermarket at all.  But if you think Tesco only intend to draw on that 23k population I'd be surprised.  And if your prediction on traffic improving as a result of a massive Tesco turns out to be true, I don't think 'surprise' would quite cover it!

Who said it would be a 'major' supermarket of the size of an 'extra' store? These 'grocers' size their stores based on the available population catchment, which in the case of Marple, given all the other competing stores, is quite fierce. Dave's analysis seems to be based in reality....

If I have been ignorant, please forgive me.  I made an assumption on the basis that they are looking at paying £12m for a very large site.  Am not sure what Dave is basing his analysis on, but my theory, that IF it is a large store then traffic would be vey badly affected, is based in reality.
I'd suggest that if it was a relatively small to moderately sized store, there would be much less opposition and also perhaps a different site considered than a geographically large site requiring extensive demolition and rebuilding, running costs into tens of millions. 
Again, it feels like you're nitpicking at minor points (woe betide the mention of the word Extra to make you disregard the rest of my post) but in essence... Large-ish supermarket=more traffic.  Don't think I can say any more on it.

[Belle Star]

Marple in Action are in have started  an organised campaign please send me a personal email and I will inform you of details of the next meeting

Duke Fame - there was an open invitation for all forum users by Miss Marple a little while back. This is how I became aware of the meeting, along with other forum members who attended. Watch this space for details of the next meeting.

[Duke Fame]

Thanks for the update Belle, I'd like to have been invited.

[Duke Fame]

Hanburys used to be a handy little supermarket and was well used. The Co-op probably put their rent up to get rid of them!

I don't know how the co-op can justify selling things that are sometimes 40p, 50p dearer than other supermarkets. You can get 4 pints of milk from Iceland for £1, co-op sell it for £1.59 and just now the co-op have a punnet of strawberries half price at £2, the usual price of £4 is just ridiculous. The co-op also had a big box of laundry powder that was supposedly reduced from £10 to £5 which I bought, I go down that aisle today and guess what, they are selling it for £5, so was never actually reduced at all. I am also tired of always seeing the same things on BOGOF. Plus, everyday items in their now petrol station are 40p, 50p dearer than the co-op! Lets hope that the co-op take it seriously and reduce their prices.

If Tescos does arrive in Marple and offering food at realistic and common sense prices, then co-op will become a ghost town and instead of customer there will only be tumble weed moving down the aisles.

It [Hanburys] clearly wasn’t used well enough as it would still be running. Indeed you welcome tumbleweed in the aisles of the Co-op, as has happened to the old supermarket it will close, the result will not be competition.

I’m relatively new to Marple so don’t know the dynamics. This shop that is available to let was once Hanburys but the building was owned by the Co-op who rented it to Hanbury’s but put up the rent to have force a monopoly? Is that definitely right? I’m surprised as tenants usually have so much protection.

Your milk example isn’t a good one, Co-op specifically source from UK farmers who charge about 27p a litre of milk. It’s then packaged and distributed as well as the unsold milk wasted so I’d guess that even at £1.58 the profit is around 32%. Iceland are either sourcing from Jonny Foreign or running a loss leader to get the punters in to buy intensively farmed chicken etc. Co-op’s USP is the fair-trade thing so this is why you are paying 50p more for Milk. Even if you want the choice, you said yourself, it’s only a short walk to Iceland.

I have to say, the Petrol Station prices seem to be identical as the main co-op but selected to ensure the best value sizes are not available. Guess what, the Tesco petrol stations are the same.

[ericthehamster]

Thanks Belle - couldn't make meeting today, and won't be able to make Wednesday but e-mailed the details to all my local friends.