Tesco / ASDA !!!

[Harry]

Dave,my grandchildren have no opinion either way on the supermarket,Like a lot of the 23000 residents in Marple you keep banging on about they cannot speak on such issues.You cannot count on all 23000 having an opinion for reasons too numerous to mention.People who sign the petition have to be 18 years old,so that excludes a few thousand of your magic number.

Do people who sign the petition have to be residents of Marple?

[sooty2]

Dave.. I work in a local pub,  I own a local business covering a completely different set of people, I do a school run also a different set of people, I walk the dog in the local park, again another set of people and I also spent most of my life here so know lots of Marple people on top of all that lot.  

I sit slightly but ever so slightly off the fence towards the no campaign on this one so dont argue the toss ( ie i dont frighten people off talking about it!) but I do tend to ask people s opinion.. the majority are against this proposal.  on top of THAT this forum also suggests it in its polls as does the FB posts. So thats where i get my reasoning for that

This rings bells with me too, although my totally non-scientific impression, having had various chats with friends, neighbours, people I meet in shops etc, has been that opinion is fairly evenly divided.  But please let's not pretend that this is in any way representative of the population of Marple! 

As for this:

Well I don't want a woman with too much power from Stoke dictating what we do get in our town.It won't affect her will it?Selfish!Selfish!person.

...that is just ridiculous, and a typical example of the MIA tendency to exaggerate and personalise issues.  When colleges acquire or dispose of major assets (land, buildings etc), these are matters for the Governing Body to determine.  The notion that camsfc is disposing of the Hibbert Lane site because a 'woman with too much power from Stoke dictated it' is absurd.  The reality is that the governors of the college are doing the best they can, in these difficult times, to improve their facilities for the benefit of our children and grandchildren.  It's as simple as that! 

This is my personal opinion!nothing to do with MIA.I do not want a woman from Stoke and her out of area governors with too much power dictating what we do get in our town.They did not have to sell to a supermarket.(Social Conscience)?Nah! like I said before selfish! they couldn' care less especially about the people who live around the proposed supermarket site.I feel so sorry for them

[Belly]

Was that a yes or a no Dave ?

Do MIA also speak on behalf of those of us who have yet to state a preference - I.e potentially the silent majority. Afterall with no actual plans to consider, I'm finding it hard to be too pro or anti anything.

In fact the only thing I find worth reacting against at the moment is the rhetoric and grandstanding that seems prevalent on here and at meetings.

What meetings have you seen grandstanding?as a matter of interest.

The video of the meeting at the school shows the person from the 'yes' campaign getting strictly limited 'respect' from some of the attendees.

Furthermore, many of the statements made by some of the contributants duirng the meeting add up to little more than scaremongering nonsense, where 'opinion' was presented as 'fact', with no real interest in debate.

I found that meeting amusing in many respects. It went on for ages, when actually there was little or nothing of any substance to discuss, other than for the Council to state their policy position - which they did at the start. After that, it was mainly hot air, with people trying to crystal ball gaze as to what the effects of an unknown scale retail of development might be.

Don't get me wrong, I think local discussion and review of any proposals is a critical element - but the amount of vitriol and ill-informed nonsense that is doing the rounds of the community at present is not helpful or constructive. Personally if presented with 'facts' (not saying that MIA are doing this, but these are regular rumours that I hear) that a supermarket the size of Portwood was to be built at Marple, including the knocking down of the swimming baths and potentially resulting in the loss of the 6th form college in the town - I would be against it too and would gladly sign a petition / make my views clear. But I've a pretty good idea that the final scheme won't be like that at all. That said, I'm not sure what it actually will include and so I'm waiting to see the details ('facts' if you will) before making up my mind as to whether I think there is any merit in the proposals.

[sooty2]

Truly amazing    So let me get this straight: you guys up there on Planet MIA seriously believe that by talking to people in a tent in Market Street on Saturdays, you are getting an accurate representation of the majority view of the 23,000 residents of Marple.   Really?? 

Dave,my grandchildren have no opinion either way on the supermarket,Like a lot of the 23000 residents in Marple you keep banging on about they cannot speak on such issues.You cannot count on all 23000 having an opinion for reasons too numerous to mention.People who sign the petition have to be 18 years old,so that excludes a few thousand of your magic number.

[sooty2]

Was that a yes or a no Dave ?

Do MIA also speak on behalf of those of us who have yet to state a preference - I.e potentially the silent majority. Afterall with no actual plans to consider, I'm finding it hard to be too pro or anti anything.

In fact the only thing I find worth reacting against at the moment is the rhetoric and grandstanding that seems prevalent on here and at meetings.

What meetings have you seen grandstanding?as a matter of interest.

[Dave]

Dave... I hate to bring this up as I know it ll start the rounds again... but I haven't seen any guarantee that the money raised will be reinvested in Marple

It's a very good question.  In theory, camsfc governors are free to allocate funds between courses and campuses as they see fit.  So theoretically there is no guarantee that the proceeds from the sale of Hibbert Lane will be re-invested in Marple.

In practice, however, it is as close to certain as makes no difference.  The reason for this is as follows.    In order to dispose of Hibbert Lane, the college will have needed to get consent from its funding body, the Young People's Learning Agency (YPLA).   This consent will have had conditions attached.  One of the standard conditions is that the development should not lead to any loss of curriculum.   So camsfc will have to show that it can still deliver the same curriculum after the sale has been completed.

Now the only way they could do that without re-investing the proceeds at Buxton Lane would be if they could shoe-horn all the Hibbert Lane activity and the Buxton Lane activity into the existing Buxton Lane building!  Needless to say, there is not the remotest chance of their being able to do that. 

..an educational establishment is NOT just a business but part of the community as a whole, in fact they claim to be exactly that !  Their behaviour however has been completely the opposite and I do think if there were local people who were part of our community on the governing body it would have a different ethos and feel to it, and though they might be still selling the land part of the decision making process on who to sell it to would be whats best for the area.

I think that's a really important point.  It surprises me that there appears to be very little local representation on the camsfc governing body, and in my experience of colleges that's quite unusual. 

[Miss Marple]

Lisa of course MIA have made mistakes we are a group of local residents who feel passionate that a supermarket on Hibbert Lane would be a mistake.  We hopefully learn by our mistakes but what must be remembered is that we have MIA members who are sympathetic to the cause and if details were released it could be detrimental to their employment ie a conflict of interests.  The action line is always there for people to contact, the stall is a regular feature in the centre, and this web site serves as a point of contact.
I am no stranger to court  and have represented people in employment law cases where cases of conflict of interests has been a big issue with at times dire consequences for an individual, so MIA respect peoples right to remain in the 'back office'
I am sure when/ if the plans are submitted  MIA will become more transparent and will be looking to increase our numbers.  I did mention at the start of this topic that MIA was formed around my kitchen table and from there we have gained a band of people from all walks of life who bring skills, knowledge and a greater understanding of planning law.
I have also mentioned that MIA has different groups of individuals who work in teams within their own area of particular practice, there are members that even I have not met.
We are not a secret organisation and I fully understand how this may appear but sadly I am also fully aware of how so people can use this to in someway try to bring MIA into disrepute.  It's going to be a long haul and like I have said before there are really only 2 or 3 members of MIA who post on here.  I have continued to post to keep people informed of developments but I am becoming increasingly disappointed in some peoples contributions striving to give MIA a negative press instead of getting of their backside and starting an opposition group if they feel that there is a need.
Please do not continue to frighten MIA members from posting as this is at this moment the only source of information that you will receive that will help everyone keep up to speed with developments .  Please be respectful of our cause. MM

[Lisa Oldham]

Miss Marple... did you read my post?  You just seem to concentrate on Daves comments!
I've visited the stall too I still want a list of names and numbers, i think my reasons are acceptable and I believe its a view many others hold too, without it people do not trust any of you!  Just by avoiding the issue on here, and the lack of transparency of this organisation, the dipping into other areas without any authority ,and most of the refusal to accept that you as  group have made mistakes means I have absolutely no support for MIA at all any more!

Dave... I hate to bring this up as I know it ll start the rounds again... but I haven't seen any guarantee that the money raised will be reinvested in Marple so constantly suggesting they are doing it for the benefit of our children is not necessarily correct.. its purely a business decision lets stop pretending otherwise (I don't necessarily disagree with the reasoning behind that decision)  and what many argue is that it shouldn't be, that an educational establishment is NOT just a business but part of the community as a whole, in fact they claim to be exactly that !  Their behaviour however has been completely the opposite and I do think if there were local people who were part of our community on the governing body it would have a different ethos and feel to it, and though they might be still selling the land part of the decision making process on who to sell it to would be whats best for the area. 

[Miss Marple]

No it's not as simple as that Dave !  Are you going to take me up on the invitation to visit the stall and meet with MIA members ? Much better than a list of meaningless names wouldn't you agree.

[Dave]

Dave.. I work in a local pub,  I own a local business covering a completely different set of people, I do a school run also a different set of people, I walk the dog in the local park, again another set of people and I also spent most of my life here so know lots of Marple people on top of all that lot.  

I sit slightly but ever so slightly off the fence towards the no campaign on this one so dont argue the toss ( ie i dont frighten people off talking about it!) but I do tend to ask people s opinion.. the majority are against this proposal.  on top of THAT this forum also suggests it in its polls as does the FB posts. So thats where i get my reasoning for that

This rings bells with me too, although my totally non-scientific impression, having had various chats with friends, neighbours, people I meet in shops etc, has been that opinion is fairly evenly divided.  But please let's not pretend that this is in any way representative of the population of Marple! 

As for this:

Well I don't want a woman with too much power from Stoke dictating what we do get in our town.It won't affect her will it?Selfish!Selfish!person.

...that is just ridiculous, and a typical example of the MIA tendency to exaggerate and personalise issues.  When colleges acquire or dispose of major assets (land, buildings etc), these are matters for the Governing Body to determine.  The notion that camsfc is disposing of the Hibbert Lane site because a 'woman with too much power from Stoke dictated it' is absurd.  The reality is that the governors of the college are doing the best they can, in these difficult times, to improve their facilities for the benefit of our children and grandchildren.  It's as simple as that! 

[tina]

In all honesty Dave my apology was a little tongue in cheek because if truth be told  since the MIA campaign started in June 2011, I have only really spoken to people who are against a supermarket albeit from 5 local people from the YES campaign and yourself who for all I know could live in London ?   So it's difficult for me to understand who all the people are who you say are in support of a supermarket.  Because nearly every Sat for months I have been on the MIA stall speaking to hundreds of people who are against the development.
I take on board that this may well be difficult for you to believe so I am offering you, HWL and Tina an invitation to come along to the stall and spend a couple of hours with MIA so you can see first hand the concerns the community have regarding a Supermarket on Hibbert Lane. 
Now if this offer is refused by anyone I will assume that the three of you do really understand the strength of feeling against the development but would prefer to continue to post on issues you have limited insight in
towards the communities Concerns for their continued quality of life if this ridicules development goes ahead
in the middle of a residential area
Will any of you take up my offer ? I do hope so !

The invitation is open to you also Miss C ! I do hope you will take up the invitation as the three I have already invited for what ever reason have not taken up my invitation, which seems a little strange given that you would have the opportunity to meet in person MIA members, which I feel would be better than a meaningless list of names who I am sure you would not know !   

I am declining your invitation as I have already met some of you, and don't feel the need to meet with you again.

[Miss C]

I agree with Dave. In my opinion, it seems a strange conclusion to reach, that talking to hundreds of people around the local shops in Marple equates to the views of the thousands of people who live here. What about the hundreds of people who live here but don't use the local shops or the people who give the stall a wide berth because they don't want to get into a discussion? This can't be an accurate representation of the majority view, surely?As regards polls and fb, in my albeit limited experience of polls,people only bother with them if they have a very strong opinion and there is often a silent majority.
I may have missed this too, so apologies if I am wrong but has there actually been an answer with regards to the seeming lack of transparency of the MIA leaders? Why are there no contact details etc? I read this point with interest as it was a point I wanted to raise but given the fact we are on page 80, I wondered if I had missed it etc! I can't understand why a credible organisation would not have this available. Is this something MIA would consider doing?

[sooty2]

To clarify - I am pleased that MIA have been formed to ask questions of any scheme and make sure all is above board. What I don't want is a self appointed local pressure group taking on the role of a local planning committe and trying to dictate what is and is not acceptable in our town. That's what the planning system is for.

I've also been slightly concerned about the odd post on here that suggests that some members of MIA would be looking to flex the pressure group's muscles and give their tenpennthworth on other  issues in Marple - let's hope the group stays focussed on their raison d'être.

So Belly you don't want a pressure group dictating what is not acceptable in our town.Well I don't want a woman with too much power from Stoke dictating what we do get in our town.It won't affect her will it?Selfish!Selfish!person.

[Lisa Oldham]

Dave.. I work in a local pub,  I own a local business covering a completely different set of people, I do a school run also a different set of people, I walk the dog in the local park, again another set of people and I also spent most of my life here so know lots of Marple people on top of all that lot.  

I sit slightly but ever so slightly off the fence towards the no campaign on this one so dont argue the toss ( ie i dont frighten people off talking about it!) but I do tend to ask people s opinion.. the majority are against this proposal.  on top of THAT this forum also suggests it in its polls as does the FB posts. So thats where i get my reasoning for that

In fact the only thing I find worth reacting against at the moment is the rhetoric and grandstanding that seems prevalent on here and at meetings.

got to agree with this!  I think ALOT of people do it for exactly that reason. Its the reason i keep well away from MIA!  Maybe someone should take note of this.. you are alienating people who might normally support you!!!!

I'm quite disappointed that you didn't mean your apology Miss Marple because it certainly warranted one. I consider you the voice of MIA and it doesn't matter how much you say you are not whilst the rest of them hide behind a website and a personally anonymous newsletter and a help line number you will continue to be.
At the same time... you lot are being a bit pedantic... its incorrect use of words as stated in my previous post its an enthusiastic bunch of people believing they are doing the right thing... give them some slack to put it right.. but at the same time MIA non-representatives stop fighting it, you' re getting to sound like politicians who also NEVER accept they make mistakes!

[Miss Marple]

Truly amazing    So let me get this straight: you guys up there on Planet MIA seriously believe that by talking to people in a tent in Market Street on Saturdays, you are getting an accurate representation of the majority view of the 23,000 residents of Marple.   Really?? 

Yes Dave ! These people are called the community!!!    I bet that we get more to the MIA tent than you get to  your armchair