Tesco / ASDA !!!

[NeilCorrie]

Fair enough Dave,

Thank you for responding.

I have not read the ofsted but I will accept what you say about the College's finances being sound.

College finances are in great shape, by ensuring 10% of staff leave the college in 2012.  The writing's on the Wall(mart) for them.  Unsure whether the axing of so many staff will lead to increased student numbers and improved student grades though. 

At least there could be a big new employer in town by then, for all those out of work lecturers.

http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Govenors/Minutes%20of%20meetings/Corp%2012_07_11m%20Part%20A.pdf
A Governor commented that the reduction in the pay bill from £11.4 to £10m was a 10% cut in one year and translated into a significant reduction in staff.

[Miss Marple]

I assume that by MCSFC you mean camsfc? If so, there is no evidence that if the sale falls through, the college can't continue to operate on their current three sites (one in Cheadle, two in Marple).  They are not seeking to sell Hibbert Lane because of any financial difficulty - as far as we know, it is simply a way of improving and updating their buildings, while at the same time reducing their running costs. 

Sorry to mislead by transposing the letters in the abbreviation. Your assumption is of course correct. You're quite right there is no evidence for what I say but there isn't any for what you say either. I own up - I am 100% speculating and what I say is HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE WON'T END UP IN TWO YEARS WITH A VANDALISED ABANDONED SITE?

I ask this question in an objective way not in a challenging way


Ok you use words better than me .but ithink the no brigade should be concerned it could drive people away from marple ,if it's left to vandals .but that's just my opinion people sometimes don't like my opinion on this forum .

I value your opinion Amazon even though we sometimes go head to head ! 

[finetimefontaine]

I believed all apps went through the local planning meeting first.. and that's when they KNOW what the app entails! The local one can then send it to a central one?   This application if I remember all the info correctly has been transferred to full planning months before an application exists!! This frees our lovely councillors to finally have an opinion as they wont be part of that committee, and lets be honest, why on earth, after their initial silence whilst I'm sure they gauged general opinion, speak out FOR a supermarket when the election is looming?

Hello Lisa,

The planning application process is complicated. There is a particular situation where the AC can decide the whole thing and it doesn't  have to go to H & P, Paul L explained at the EACM but I wasn't listening properly.

What is intriguing is why half the Councillors should speak out and half shouldn't.

[amazon]

I assume that by MCSFC you mean camsfc? If so, there is no evidence that if the sale falls through, the college can't continue to operate on their current three sites (one in Cheadle, two in Marple).  They are not seeking to sell Hibbert Lane because of any financial difficulty - as far as we know, it is simply a way of improving and updating their buildings, while at the same time reducing their running costs. 

Sorry to mislead by transposing the letters in the abbreviation. Your assumption is of course correct. You're quite right there is no evidence for what I say but there isn't any for what you say either. I own up - I am 100% speculating and what I say is HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE WON'T END UP IN TWO YEARS WITH A VANDALISED ABANDONED SITE?

I ask this question in an objective way not in a challenging way.


Ok you use words better than me .but ithink the no brigade should be concerned it could drive people away from marple ,if it's left to vandals .but that's just my opinion people sometimes don't like my opinion on this forum .

[finetimefontaine]

Miss Marple,


I don't really understand your last posting and obviously you don't really understand mine. Apologies for not explaining it better.

What "hype" is this that you refer to?

When you say "you could not be more wrong" to whom do you address this remark? Surely not to me as that is my point exactly ...I DON'T BELIEVE...that's what ..."excuse my cynicism"... infers. 

I have no idea what the community believe - I have only discussed the issue with a very tiny percentage of it and would not presume to speak for it on that basis alone.

 

[Miss Marple]

Fair enough Dave,

Thank you for responding.

I have not read the ofsted but I will accept what you say about the College's finances being sound.

However, I am sure that you agree that this is only one component in the equation. Much of what you say after that (although I do agree with your bit about the co-op) even the bit about the co-op is based on balance of probability or to be pedantic - balance of improbability which of course is just another name for speculation.
The people of Marple have been told from the onset and progressively by their elders and betters as far as CMSFC is concerned this and that etc etc will not be allowed ... nevertheless much of what was deemed to be "not be allowed" has come to pass. The latest declaration of "not be allowed" is planning permission for a supermarket by the Council. Well forgive my cynicism!

Anyway I go of track as I know that YOU ARE ONLY TRYING TO BE HELPFUL.

Just a few more minutes of you time.  What IYHO do you think will happen to the site if Asda do not get panning permission

     

And do you really believe that the community believe the hype ? And believe everything we are told by the town hall suits ?   You could not be more wrong, the community is watching and if any good has ever come out of the supermarket issue, it is that gone are the days when deals were done behind closed doors. This has been a wake up call for the community and will hopefully allow us to have consultation on any other future changes which directly effect us !

[Bowden Guy]

How can having an enhanced Buxton Lane site possibly be at a "cost" to young people? Why is the number of sites an issue at all? Surely it is the quality of provision, and the quality of the facilities, that really matter?

[finetimefontaine]

Fair enough Dave,

Thank you for responding.

I have not read the ofsted but I will accept what you say about the College's finances being sound.

However, I am sure that you agree that this is only one component in the equation. Much of what you say after that (although I do agree with your bit about the co-op) even the bit about the co-op is based on balance of probability or to be pedantic - balance of improbability which of course is just another name for speculation.

The people of Marple have been told from the onset and progressively by their elders and betters as far as CMSFC is concerned this and that etc etc will not be allowed ... nevertheless much of what was deemed to be "not be allowed" has come to pass. The latest declaration of "not be allowed" is planning permission for a supermarket by the Council. Well forgive my cynicism!

Anyway I go of track as I know that YOU ARE ONLY TRYING TO BE HELPFUL.

Just a few more minutes of you time.  What IYHO do you think will happen to the site if Asda do not get panning permission?

     

[Miss Marple]

I assume that by MCSFC you mean camsfc? If so, there is no evidence that if the sale falls through, the college can't continue to operate on their current three sites (one in Cheadle, two in Marple).  They are not seeking to sell Hibbert Lane because of any financial difficulty - as far as we know, it is simply a way of improving and updating their buildings, while at the same time reducing their running costs. 

Sorry to mislead by transposing the letters in the abbreviation. Your assumption is of course correct. You're quite right there is no evidence for what I say but there isn't any for what you say either. I own up - I am 100% speculating and what I say is HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE WON'T END UP IN TWO YEARS WITH A VANDALISED ABANDONED SITE?

I ask this question in an objective way not in a challenging way.

Maybe it could be sold for the purpose it was gifted for,  Education ?  Possibly an alternative education provider could make use of the site at a reasonable price.  It has never ceased to amaze me that the people who supported a loss in an education facility were not only governors of CAMSFC but were prominent people working as lectures and professors based at Manchester University, the very people who should have been campaigning to save an education site for  future generations   I know I will hear that old chestnut  that CAMSFC are doing it to enhance facilities but at what cost to local Marple young people.  I am not sure what the population of MARPLE is currently but I do know that it's a dam sight more than when I was a school so how can we now think that we need less education sites ?

[Dave]

[You're quite right there is no evidence for what I say but there isn't any for what you say either.

Well here's the evidence for the College's finances being sound:  http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/Annual_reports/Annual_Rep_08_09_lr.pdf

In addition, a fairly recent Ofsted inspection graded their financial position as 'outstanding', I believe.  So we know that the College is not disposing of the site because they are in any financial difficulty.

In answer to your question....

HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE WON'T END UP IN TWO YEARS WITH A VANDALISED ABANDONED SITE?

... we don't KNOW anything for sure, but that outcome is so improbable that we can safely disregard it.  This is because the College can not afford to (indeed, would not be allowed to) close courses or deliberately reduce student numbers.  So they will not sell the site unless they can get enough money for it to build sufficient replacement accommodation on the Buxton Lane site.  And no-one would buy it for £12 million or any other significant sum and then let it become a wasteland.  I understand the point about the site being bought up to be a 'land bank', but AFAIK that is usually done as a 'blocking move', when a big supermarket chain (e.g. Asda) buys up land to stop another big chain (e.g. Tesco) from opening up in competition with them.  The only supermarket in that position round here would be the Co-op.  Can anyone see them doing that?  Me neither......   

Where I do agree with you, finetime, is here:

We can't know for sure until we see agreement details but what has probably occurred is that Asda have bought it subject to obtaining PP and if they don't get it ownership reverts back to MCSFC.

[finetimefontaine]

I assume that by MCSFC you mean camsfc? If so, there is no evidence that if the sale falls through, the college can't continue to operate on their current three sites (one in Cheadle, two in Marple).  They are not seeking to sell Hibbert Lane because of any financial difficulty - as far as we know, it is simply a way of improving and updating their buildings, while at the same time reducing their running costs. 

Sorry to mislead by transposing the letters in the abbreviation. Your assumption is of course correct. You're quite right there is no evidence for what I say but there isn't any for what you say either. I own up - I am 100% speculating and what I say is HOW DO WE KNOW THAT WE WON'T END UP IN TWO YEARS WITH A VANDALISED ABANDONED SITE?

I ask this question in an objective way not in a challenging way.

[amazon]

Consider this, call it a hypothetical question if you like.

Asda for all it tries can't get planning permission - so leaves town -  hurrah! for some not for others - I KNOW THAT!

As the deal with cmsfc was dependent upon PP being granted, cmsfc get no money from Asda therefore they cannot afford to run three sites. As Hibbert Lane offers the most potential they leave the site and put it up for sale -but no buyers come. The buildings are left to dilapidate and the vandals move in stealing;lead,copper, roof tiles anything that they can strip or carry away. Very soon the site is an eyesore - then the travellers move in.

Fanciful, pessimistic and far -fetched   ??

And suppose asda have paid full whack for the site allowing the collage to in prove then move .and Asda to keep as a land bank . For. years it could backfire on the no to a supermarket brigade .then what will they do

[alstan]

Thank you, Belly, for your post on 18th Feb. It reflects my own views exactly.

[Dave]

I assume that by MCSFC you mean camsfc? If so, there is no evidence that if the sale falls through, the college can't continue to operate on their current three sites (one in Cheadle, two in Marple).  They are not seeking to sell Hibbert Lane because of any financial difficulty - as far as we know, it is simply a way of improving and updating their buildings, while at the same time reducing their running costs. 

[finetimefontaine]

I'm not convinced of that, Lisa.  There's one overriding imperative: the college must be able to maintain student numbers at the current level at least, or they will lose funding.   If they can't raise enough from the disposal of the Hibbert Lane site, they won't be able to build sufficient space round the corner at Buxton Lane to accommodate all the displaced activity from Hibbert Lane.  I seem to recall that the site was valued at only £4 million if used for housing.  I don't think that would be enough, so it could cause the entire scheme to collapse.   

Exactly Dave,  and what happens if the whole scheme does collapse? It still leaves MCSFC "ALLEGEDLY" WITH NO MONEY TO CONTINUE ON THE SITE ? What happens in Marple to Hibbert Lane site if Asda and MCSFC leave town - what's the choice then?