Tesco / ASDA !!!

[Miss Marple]

That's the problem ! Lord Hill in his last letter  to me had been assured by the YPLA that there would be no loss of curriculum if the sites merged and that plans were already being drawn up to include all curriculum lost at the Hibbert lane site in the plans for Buxton Lane.  Now I maybe a lot of things but I am no mathematician but even I can see that 2 into 1 won't go, so my fear is that CAMSFC are, if Victor M is to be believed, and I have no reason to doubt him, already moving some of the curriculum out of Marple on the quiet so when they have to present plans the already lost curriculum would not have to be included.   Now do  you see where I am coming from 

[Dave]

I agree, Miss M, and I don't think the YPLA (soon to become the SFA) would allow that. 

[Miss Marple]

I mean transferring courses to Cheadle that were once provided at Marple if that's not a loss of curriculum I don't know what is.   If CAMSFC are allowed to undertake this it will possibly result in our children having to be bussed  to Cheadle for education,  which is a nonsense given that we have two perfectly adequate colleges here on our doorstep

[Dave]

You know exactly what I mean !

Sorry Miss M, but I don't.  Why would I ask a question if I already knew the answer     You need to spell it out to me: by referring to 'transferring subjects to another campus' did you mean Buxton Lane or Cheadle?

So why are we already losing curriculum at Marple?

There are various possible reasons.   The most common reason for a course being dropped is that not enough students want to take it - this happens all the time: courses for which there is little demand are replaced by new ones that students actually want to do.   It's called being responsive to changing demand. The one certainty is that any course which is closing at the moment won't be doing so because of the possible future closure of the Hibbert Lane site, which is far from a done deal, and, contrary to what you and Finetime seem to believe, is likely to be a few years away, if it happens at all.

Finetime writes:

However as far as Asda is concerned if they put their planning application in a day after local elections in May and SMBC's Planning Committee nods it through then there is no reason why you can't be patting yourself on the derriere as you walk through the doors whistling the asda price jingle by next Easter. And before anybody starts jumping up and down saying the Council have made a public statement that they will refuse planning permission - well they have said no such thing - the Director of Planning has and so has the leader of the Council (who incidentally has a good chance of losing his seat in May)  but they aren't the Council - they're just a couple of people involved with it.

....but s/he may be unaware that there is no serious prospect of the SMBC Planning Committee 'nodding through' a planning application for a supermarket in Hibbert Lane, either before or after the May elections, for the simple reason that the Local Development Framework has the area zoned for housing, not retail. So if a planning application for retail use is going to be approved, it will be at appeal - and that's a long-winded process.  And then if the application were ultimately to be approved - say, some time next year - the College would then have to get planning consent for its Buxton Lane development, and then build it and move in, before the demolition team goes on site at Hibbert Lane.  So don't expect much back-pocket slapping until about 2016 at the earliest!  

[marpleexile]

When you "optimistically say 5 years" I'm not sure whether you are referring to building the ASDA or realising the College's development plans or both. I don't know about the College and we don't really know what their development plans are - other than a catch-all statement to develop the Buxton Campus. However as far as Asda is concerned if they put their planning application in a day after local elections in May and SMBC's Planning Committee nods it through then there is no reason why you can't be patting yourself on the derriere as you walk through the doors whistling the asda price jingle by next Easter.

Either/both. This issue is going to drag on and on (and Ariston) as there will inevitably be appeal after appeal until the "loosing" side (whichever that turns out to be) has run out of options.

[Miss Marple]

I could not agree more Finetime !   Everything in my opinion has been staged and planned until after the elections, I am sure some of the suits think we are stupid, but believe me we really are one step ahead 

[finetimefontaine]

Don't get me wrong, there may well be big job losses, as a lot can change over the next (shall I be optimistic and say) 5 yrs that it takes for these plans to come to fruition, but as yet, there is no evidence that there will be.

When you "optimistically say 5 years" I'm not sure whether you are referring to building the ASDA or realising the College's development plans or both. I don't know about the College and we don't really know what their development plans are - other than a catch-all statement to develop the Buxton Campus. However as far as Asda is concerned if they put their planning application in a day after local elections in May and SMBC's Planning Committee nods it through then there is no reason why you can't be patting yourself on the derriere as you walk through the doors whistling the asda price jingle by next Easter. And before anybody starts jumping up and down saying the Council have made a public statement that they will refuse planning permission - well they have said no such thing - the Director of Planning has and so has the leader of the Council (who incidentally has a good chance of losing his seat in May)  but they aren't the Council - they're just a couple of people involved with it.

Furthermore after May's elections when the Lib Dems have lost even more seats in Stockport, perhaps not in Marple but in, Manor, Romiley, Cale Green, possibly Offerton and Cheadle. The planning Committee will comprise of a Libdem minority because of the proportionality rule, and if Conservative and Labour combined controlled Planning Committee thought that they could damage the Libdem's national flagship ward of Marple by granting planning permission to ASDA then they'd let them build one on in the middle of the Memorial Park! Let alone Hibbert Lane !

[Miss Marple]

I don't understand that post. By ' transferring subjects to another campus', do you mean Buxton Lane or Cheadle?

In any case, the underlying position is clear: there must be no loss of curriculum in Marple as the result of any land disposal.  And that is how it has to be.  What's the problem?  

You know exactly what I mean !   So why are we already losing curriculum at Marple, could it be that the corporation think they are a law unto themselves ?

[Dave]

I don't understand that post. By ' transferring subjects to another campus', do you mean Buxton Lane or Cheadle?

In any case, the underlying position is clear: there must be no loss of curriculum in Marple as the result of any land disposal.  And that is how it has to be.  What's the problem?   

[Miss Marple]

Not really Dave. One of the stipulations of the YPLA agreeing to any land  sale is that there is no loss of facilities or curriculum in that area, this does not include transferring subjects to another campus.  I have been in talks with the Chief Executive of YPLA who gave an assurance that Ms Cassidy had assured him that there would be  no loss of curriculum in Marple.  Me thinks he may have to have a little chat with Ms Cassidy and her corporation, don't you 

[Dave]

It's common knowledge that most colleges and universities are having to cut jobs because their funding is being reduced, together with that of most other parts of the public sector.  As marpleexile says, this is an entirely separate issue from camsfc's plans to develop its estate. 

[marpleexile]

Which job losses would these be? Now admittedly you have to talk the College at their word at the moment, as there are no firm plans in place (for pretty much anything related to this discussion in fact), but they have said that they intend to make the move to Buxton Lane with no loss of facility, curriculum or student capacity.

Can you please let me know where the college have confirmed this fact. If you look at the Governors minutes you will see that the job losses are actually this and next financial year the exact wording is
The pay assumptions made when setting the budget included that additional staff savings would be made in 2011/12 and 2012/13 through restructuring of over £1m.
That is a considerable number of non teaching staff. Also if you look at the number of courses offerred at the Cheadle site against the Marple sites you will see that there is a lot of courses that are now only available at the Cheadle site,that were once available at both sites. What we are seeing is the slow reduction in the Marple sites prior to any move to one site.

So those are job losses relating to financial restructuring taking place this financial year, and next. I don't see the relevance to the discussion in hand, ie significant job losses as a direct result of the college selling hibbert lane and consolidating on Buxton Lane.

Don't get me wrong, there may well be big job losses, as a lot can change over the next (shall I be optimistic and say) 5 yrs that it takes for these plans to come to fruition, but as yet, there is no evidence that there will be.

[Miss Marple]

Well Victor M I certainly  think you have given a few regular posters food for thought with your last post about the loss of jobs at CAMSFC

[Victor M]

Which job losses would these be? Now admittedly you have to talk the College at their word at the moment, as there are no firm plans in place (for pretty much anything related to this discussion in fact), but they have said that they intend to make the move to Buxton Lane with no loss of facility, curriculum or student capacity.

Can you please let me know where the college have confirmed this fact. If you look at the Governors minutes you will see that the job losses are actually this and next financial year the exact wording is
The pay assumptions made when setting the budget included that additional staff savings would be made in 2011/12 and 2012/13 through restructuring of over £1m.
That is a considerable number of non teaching staff. Also if you look at the number of courses offerred at the Cheadle site against the Marple sites you will see that there is a lot of courses that are now only available at the Cheadle site,that were once available at both sites. What we are seeing is the slow reduction in the Marple sites prior to any move to one site.

[marpleexile]

At no point did I suggest otherwise - the closest I got was pointing out that people like nice new buildings.  They may not perform better, but good working conditions are well known to be a factor in hanging on to good staff. 

I would think the staff would be happy just to hang on to their jobs wouldn't you agree Dave old boy ?   Have you deliberately forgotten about the job losses at CAMSFC should this proposal go ahead!  I swear you have selective memory syndrome 

Which job losses would these be? Now admittedly you have to talk the College at their word at the moment, as there are no firm plans in place (for pretty much anything related to this discussion in fact), but they have said that they intend to make the move to Buxton Lane with no loss of facility, curriculum or student capacity. So who is in danger of losing their job? Other than, in this current economic climate, everyone who gets paid directly or indirectly by government/council, or in fact everyone in general. I guess you wouldn't need as many cleaners/maintenance staff (maybe, but after all, Buxton Lane will be expanded, so it's certainly not as simple as saying that they will just halve the number staff in these areas). But given that the planning process will probably drag on for years, and that it will probably take at least a year or two for any subsequent building works to be completed, there is plenty of time for any necessary staffing reduction to take place through natural wastage.