New Relief Road Scheme

I used to get the train myself until I had to fit in with school hours - now there's a problem in itself.

As for 25 mins journey from Rose Hill to Piccadilly that is fine but unless I magically sprint a 4 minute mile from school to the station I will never catch the one train that gets me into work on time.

I don't actually have an issue with my commute, it is the nursery/school run that is impossible to complete on public transport unless I want to drag the kids out in the dark and wet and wind at 7am to make the 5 mile round trip in an hour and a half, really not a very pleasant thought I'm afraid.

Plus, door to door, it takes approx 50 minutes in the car, the same as the train door to door (not station to station).

As I travel to Mcr outside the normal rush hour (ie after 9am and 6pm) it is not a problem. So you can perhaps understand why it would need to be a very very good service, and a very very cheap one, to persuade me out of my car.

I will continue to use the roads I am paying for and don't see why I should feel guilty about that.  

I absolutely support improvements to public transport as well as roads, please don't think I don't. After all, that would free up the roads too. '> '>  '>

[Aaron]

If there was a regular Metrolink service all the way to Rose Hill, I for one would be using it every day. Calling at Stockport would make it far more attractive than the trains, but the ability to go all the way to the city centre or to Old Trafford on one ticket would be the capper.

[Belly]

I agree with your points about the railways - its a bugbear of mine, especially in Marple given how the Beeching Axe destroyed our key connections.

Thats why we should be (for once) supporting our MP and his lobbying of central government to fully implement SEMMS and ALL it entails - Metrolink to Rose Hill - that would make quite a difference. It just needs that investment word!

[Dave]

Spot on Belly.  The only detail I'd want to take issue with here is the one about why we all deserted public transport.  Yes, we contributed to the problem ourselves by taking en masse to our 'lovely metal boxes on wheels', but we had good reason to.  Successive UK governments have neglected to invest in the railways since the 1960s.  Neither the track nor the stations nor the rolling stock were replaced or upgraded when they should have been, and we are now reaping the benefits.  Our roads are among the most congested in Europe, and our railways are among the least reliable.  This is not a coincidence............

[Belly]

The lifestyle 'choices' outlined below have been generated by the proliferation and access to the car. The car allows us to make excuses for increasing our 'need' to travel and then we bleat on about how difficult it is to use them these days.

Like it or not, we will have to make serious choice about how we live soon. People will have to seriously consider whether a) they should live more locally to work, b) make a concious decision to move near to a reliable public transport corridor to help them get to work or c) Get in their car, drive wherever they like (regardless of practicality of their journey) and fume at larger traffic jams.

We have to be realistic - Marple is being choked by cars. Why? Because its populated with people who don't work (or feel the services provided are good enough) in the town and commute out to other locations. Who has caused this problem? All of Us! Not the council or (dare I say it) public transport operators (afterall we all abandoned buses and trains in the 80's and 90's for our lovely metal boxes on wheels).

I quote from a post below "Some people's journeys can never be completed via public transport.  Our lives are far too complicated.  Unless we live lives where all our childcare is down the road, schools are close and work is on a good public transport route then it is just impossible"

I'm sorry to say this but this is the future - its not impossible, it will just involve hard choices....

[Dave]

It's depressing to read the last two posts.  We have had lousy public transport round here for so long that people have just given up on it - and who can blame them?    

There are plenty of trains from Piccadilly to Marple and Rose Hill after 6.00.  They take about 25 minutes - half the time it takes to drive.  But it's not difficult to appreciate why Gill and Denise don't use them.  They are cramped, uncomfortable and unreliable, and it's sometimes difficult to park at Marple or Rose Hill.   But imagine we had a 21st century train service, not a 19th century one.   Quick, clean, reliable, frequent, comfortable electric trains with lots of carriages, whisking us from Marple to Piccadilly in about 20 minutes.  It happens elsewhere - in Holland, Germany, Switzerland, even in certain UK cities.  So why not here?  It's got to be better than what we're all doing at the moment, which is heading relentlessly for complete gridlock, crying 'long live my lovely car' as we grind to a standstill!

I too work till 6pm in Mcr City Centre

At least by then the traffic is quieter and I get home in 50 minutes or so !!

Bus lanes are hilariously useless I agree.

If it were not for my lovely car, I would be unable to work and pay all those lovely taxes to the Govt to support other people's public transport.

[Deniseamb]

Some people's journeys can never be completed via public transport.  Our lives are far too complicated.  Unless we live lives where all our childcare is down the road, schools are close and work is on a good public transport route then it is just impossible.  This is before you add in factors like the hours we are expected to work which prevent us from picking up our picking up our kids from nursery before 6.00pm unless we have a car. (I don't finish work in Manchester until 6.00pm.)   Sorry but public transport just doesn't work for a lot of people's way of life.  Maybe we should all live near our work - that would be Manchester city centre for me - but where are the schools and nurseries?  Perhaps I should stop working so that I don't need to make the journey into Manchester but then I couldn't afford to live in the area - prices are too high.  I think we just have to accept that cars are here to stay.  And another thing - bus lanes should be banned - they cause more traffic jams and the buses are, for the most part, empty.  Long live the car!!!!!

[Dave]

This is exactly why we have a problem - public transport round here is so poor that Gill and the rest of us can't make use of it and are forced into our cars.  And until we accept that and do something about it (rather than just building more and more roads) nothing will change.

Quote (Guest @ Oct. 27 2003,21:52)

1. Ban all 'school run' trips - anybody had a nice easy ride out of Marple this morning due to the half term hols?

Please explain to me how I take my baby to Nursery in Hazel Grove then my eldest to school for 8.50am then to work in City Centre for 10m on public transport. I can't. I have to use the car.

And given the amount of money I have paid for the roads over the years, I flamin well WILL use my car!

I do agree though, the ones that drive from three roads away then drive home for a bit of Trisha get my goat too!

Trouble is, that's a stereotype which is disappearing fast these days. We all have to work y'know.

Or perhaps I should be at home making your dinner??

Instead of targeting stressed time-poor parents, perhaps the SCHOOLS need to do something instead for instance staggered opening times eg 8am/8.30/9am for different areas.

[admin]

We've had a request from a local councillor to submit the comments from this forum to the SEMMMS web site feedback form.

This has been done today with a brief explanation of where the information has come from.

I'm currently working on my university dissertation on the topic of congestionin Marple. It is quite straight forward and it is simple to see that there are two main problems, traffic using Marple as a 'through' route from elsewhere, and internal traffic problems. For my research i looked at the effect of rail commuters on internal traffic, (the car park has doubled in the last few months). Obviously the other internal problem is school's traffic, of which there is no easy solution. It is my intention that with my results of train traffic to come up with some kind of solution and identify problems or gaps with the system.

I agree that something needs to be done and agree that roads are not the answer. Before starting the dissertation i knew that the main solution would be to form a Stockport rail link and i think some pressure would be a good idea. Im certain the support is there, just ask the several hundred drivers commuting to Stockport each day !!! Is there any real organised opposition to the relief road and who do you talk to to improve the rail system?

Just thought i would add my opinion to his discussion, as it has been quite relevant for the last few months for me.

Dan
( from cricket club, andy)

Have to agree - we need to get something done with the railways first before we even start to think about road improvements........Rail stock is old and unreliable.  Last week the train was so overcrowded from Marple to Manchester, that the guard was turning people away at Belle Vue.  Though IMHO - we should have turned people away at Romiley.  If cattle had been moved in that way there would have been a public outcry......

I think there are a number of people who do the school run by bus, or (and yes it does happen) walk.  My own daughter thinks her ship has come in if I collect in the car, because she realises that it just won't happen unless there is a real emergency, though the traffic (especially outside Ludworth School) is dire.  Parking goes right up Bonington Rise, till I wonder why they drove in the first place - it's so far back again.

Would the relief road help Marple - I don't think so.  It's almost impossible to get in and out in the mornings, and most of the traffic is school run.  The difference in the hols is most marked.  Untill people realise that feet were made for walking ( and I don't believe they all live too far away - and anyway what about the school bus) the traffic will remain, and the 'relief' road will attract still more to pass through.

Sorry - it's my rant - and you can argue the point if you wish.

[Belly]

Actually Harry you might be right about the dual carriageway bit - you are definitely right about it likely turning into a Handforth Bypass if the planners aren't careful.

What this consultation process needs to decide is what is the purpose of the route is - we all know something needs to be done that not the question, but rather should the road be a bypass or is it just another local route to assist the general movement of traffic. If it is supoposed to be an A6 relief road, then in my opinion it should have limited junction access therefore only encouraging longer distance trips to use it. The problems with lots of junctions  is that it will encourage people to 'hop' from one local junction to the next - clogging everything up again - just like the Stockport sections of the M60 get like everyday.

Unfortunately it is probably the case that Marple won't really benefit a great deal from the road - but we would clearly benefit from some railway investment - i.e some newer trains (not the current life expired stock) on the Manchester run and a new / replacement line to Stockport. This at least would reduce some of the movements down Stockport Road of a morning. Where is this on the SEMMS agenda - somewhere very near the back - as always!

Despite all this, the major problem is that people are still far too wedded to their cars and make ridiculous journeys as a matter of course - whatever you try to do to encourage them not to. Just look at all the 4 x 4's parked near schools of a morning because parents think 'its too dangerous for their kids to walk to school beacuse of all the traffic!'. Also, for example, people commute all over the Greater Manchester connurbation from Marple by car - and then moan about congestion. Why? They are creating it after all! These longer distance car commutes can never be satisafied by public transport and the local road network was never designed to cater for such usage! I say, people either need to make choices about where they live / work or else just learn to accept the congestion problem that they are helping to create.

It really bugs me when I read these 'Angry of Disley' letters which keep appearing in the Stockport Times EVERY WEEK, moaning that their journey to Manchester up the A6 is intolerable now that a new bus lane / speed camera / traffic light junction has been put in. Don't these people understand what they do every day is unsustainable in the long term. If they can't handle the congestion they are causing, either shut up or move house! The system's overloaded and no matter how many new roads get built it aint going to get any better.

Sorry for the rant but sometimes the general public make me a bit cross!  '> PS - No I don't work for the Council!

[Dave]

'Bents Lane will be a quiet road again' - dream on!  I agree that some traffic will be moved elsehere (e.g. us lot in Marple will use one of the new junctions at Marple Road Offerton, Bean Leach or Offerton/Torkington Road), but that will simply clog those up even more, while the good people of Romiley and Bredbury are still queueing down Bents Lane.

The main benefit of the relief road will surely be felt on the A6. Now that's fair enough - heaven knows that problem needs sorting.  But unless we can get an alternative to road transport between Marple/Romiley and Stockport, I think we shall find that it's us that's paying the price for better traffic flow elsewhere.  

Dave
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