Jolly Sailor

I think Scott means the Spring Gardens on Compstall Rd, Marple Bridge.

[Scott]

Very interesting reading all of your comments and i aggree with most of them.  

Having lived in manchester for the past four years in the city center, rusholme and burnage/levenshume i feel privaleged to have experience of both modern innercity and suburban living.  

In my hopefully balenced perspective i see marple as a wonderfull place to live, we have many amenitys such as local shops, cinima, swimming pool and a theatre.  I also think it is very valuble to our commuinity that Marple has its council/housing association estates which make it a more balenced place to live, especially for our children who will go to marple hall and meet kids from all walks of life, some of which will be disruptive and antisocial but this is healthy for young minds who hopefully will ask the question why?  what aspects of our society lead to these problems?

As for the Jolly Sailor, well....our vision was to come up with a plan for the communitry to somehow buy the place for the good of Marple.  A youth center, family entertainment venue, heritage center, tourist promotion,  all are good ideas.  Funny how as soon as we started to investigate the possibillitys we found out that mccarthy and stone wanted to knock the place down!

So here we are, several months down the line and at a critical point.  Our rule 6 appeal statements need to be in by friday.  This menas that theyhave to be sent on thusday morning therfoe leaving us till wednesday night to type them up.  Me and about three/four other people are looking over the councils/mccarthy and stones stateents to see what we can say at the appeal but its not exacly been comming together very well.  The statements can be obtained from the council in stockport (i think) and i have copys (but unfortunatly cant use a scanner to put them online).

Main issues appear to be: (taken from M&S appeal statments)

1) Whether or not the proposed access arrangment and car parking would be detrimental to highway safety. (dangerous junction, not enough carparking spaces etc)

2) Whether or not the proposed development would materially harm the amenitys of tge occupiers of existing adjacent residential properties

3) whether or not it is appropriate for the council to seek an element of affordable housing within the development of the site as proposed and if so, whether the appelent's failure to priovide such justifies a refusal of consent.

There are other issues, such as the general siutability of a maccarthy and stone development.  It has been suggested that the document "retirement living - at its very best", which is produced by mccarthy and stone would be a good thing to pick over.  We have tryed to do this, a google search found it for us a week or so ago but strangely since then all trace of it has dissapeared!  Also, we cannot access mccarthy and stone sites from out pc!  Perhaps just a strange coincidence...guess we'll never know!

Anyway, im really scared that we are not going to be able to make a good case for the appeal.  I know that we have a good case, but its how we make it and provide evedence to back it up that i am worried about!  

Anyone who has legal knowledge or knowledge about the process (water rat?) and anyone atall who is interesting in helping us on our final push can come to a meeting in the strawberry gardens pub in marple bridge (sorry its not in central marple!'> on tuesday 1st october (tomorrow! sorry for short notice again!'> at 7:30pm.

Ill going to try and post as much info as possible in the meantime and will set up a new disscussion page specifcly for the appeal.

[Harry]

Just to add my 2 cents worth.

> boarded up shops There seem just as many as ever to me. Maybe Market Street has less than before but Stockport Road has plenty. Marple CycleSport is about to close, that will be another one empty for years. But I really don't know what we could fill these empty premises with. What do we need that we don't already have that would generate enough business to be viable (and don't say a Tanning Salon). Could be a business opportunity here.

Marple CycleSport is close to the Jolly, perhaps a shop selling Zimmer frames and support stockings  '>

>and the gangs of teenage yobs threatening and mugging people at the cash tills and off-licences  Thats a bit strong. Groups of scallies, maybe yobs, maybe vandals, but I've not heard of anybody being mugged or abused. Am I out of touch? Are people being mugged in Marple?

On the subject of vandals. Why, oh why, do they keep replacing the glass in the bus shelters. It gets broken just about every week. Why not put in plexiglass. Throw a brick at that and it bounces back. Then again, if I owned the company supplying the glass I could think of lots of reasons.

>The traffic in and out of Marple is a nightmare True. And it will only get worse as the planners seem intent on squeezing as many dwellings on the land as possible, without doing anything to improve the roads. It seems that whenever a house with land becomes empty it is replaced by a block of flats. A bungalow is currently being replaced by flats on Station Road. Is this just a way for the council to raise money - more dwellings, more council tax. Is it true that the farm opposite Seventeen Windows is being sold with planning permission for houses? How many?

Yes there are lots of places that are worse than Marple. I chose to live in Marple, I wasn't born here. But I can see that it is slowly declining. Go and take a look at Marple Hall School. Notice the paint peeling off the woodwork, the open windows (because they don't shut), the cracks in the tennis court tarmac. This used to be a school to be proud of. Its now indicative of the area, in decline. Why?  Go and take a look at a school in one of the 'deprived' areas. You will often see that it has all the best facilities - that is where the money is going. Reddish school has, or is getting, a swimming pool. The sports facilities in Ordsall are fantastic. Marple Hall had to beg for years to get astroturf, and they still don't have floodlights.

When the councillors come round looking for re-election next time, give them a hard time about it. The 'nice' places need money spending on them as well as the 'deprived' areas.

Quote

gangs of teenage yobs threatening and mugging people at the cash tills and off-licences

Having been a youthworker in Marple in a previous existence, I've seen this one from the other side!  If people were to get off their backsides and provide for/invest in young people this would be far less of an issue!  That's entirely why I was campaigning to get something done with the Bowling Green or Jolly and create a youth/community centre 3 years ago before moving down to Amersham.  Having seen simialr projects and the effects they have had I still belive it's the right way to go.

In the Summer 0f 2000 we took a group of Young People into the centre of Manchester for Message 2000 - along with thousands of other young people from across the country they spent 2 weeks out in various parts of Manchester, working on deprived estates, cleaning up local areas, working with the homeless, etc.  One team worked on a particularly notorious estate in Salford... during that time there was NO crime at all - not just a slight drop, nothing - something which the police struggled to understand.

Young People are not as bad as you make out.  Yeah, there are problems sometimes, but give them somewhere to go, provide things for them, show them love and concern - anything, but get off their case and encourage them to develop in more positive ways and you won't be disappointed.  

We currently work with over 80 11-14s every Saturday night - the kids we have are regarded as being the worst in the area and schools are shocked that we have them all together in one building all at once and are alive to tell the tale!  But because we're prepared to get out there and do things for them, to get out of our comfort zones and take risks, they are there - week in, week out - and off the streets.

It's your call  '>

[Peter]

Well said!
Now this debating is what the forum is really about.

[Howard]

>boarded up shops
Far fewer than a few years ago - look at the top end of Market Street with well attended coffee shops and cafes. A very welcome addition to the local businesses

>litter and mess everywhere
Show me a town centre in the UK that doesn't have litter and mess. This is a national problem not a local one. If you look at towns in Germany, Sweden etc which people traditionally think of as "clean" then look at the sky-high rates/local taxes they pay then you'll know why. If you want to keep your taxes low, which seems to be the main consideration for most British people, then live with it. Writing to a council starved of funds by central government when that council has areas with much bigger problems than Marple (Brinnnington etc) won't get you anywhere.

>the lack of anything even slightly cultural
One of the only still viable local cinemas not put out of business by the multi-plexes (The Regent). A thriving local amateur theatre (The Carver), one of the best brass bands in the country which regularly plays in local venues (the Methodist Church, the Conservative Club). A fanstic local Carnival. How many of these do you use or attend?

>and the gangs of teenage yobs threatening and mugging people at the cash tills and off-licences.
CCTV is used in Marple and has actually done a good deal to keep trouble away from the centre of Marple. Perhaps if the Jolly were turned into some sort of youth/community centre that could be monitored and controlled then this fear of crime would disappear.


The traffic in and out of Marple is a nightmare
It certainly is - and one of the reasons why it is is that people want to live here. It's a nice place to live - more people=more traffic. We need to compaing for better public transport from the railways and look at other ways of working. Have you signed the broadband petition so we can hit the trigger point to get the local BT exchange ADSL enabled? My working life has been transformed by having broadband installed - I only need to leave Marple during the day if I'm seeing a customer, other than that I can work from home.

and the local councillor (who refused to do anything about the new lights in offerton other than to blame the local MP) has turned out to be a complete pervert who was only interested in teenage boys himself!
Personal attacks - the last refuge of the small minded. What has someone's sexual preferences go t to do with their performance as a local councillor?

Stop whining about the place and do something about it. I moved away from Marple for ten years and lived in Ashton-under-Lyne in that time. If you think Marple has all the problems you listed above, I invite you to visit other towns in the region - you'll find them multiplied by ten. I moved back to Marple as soon as I could because I like living here. As most people think - it's a nice place to live.

I'm sure that like me, she paid her council tax. I agree with every word she has said. Marple residents need to wake up to the fact that Marple is in a terrible state. I have written to the council on numerous occasions but have received no action and seen no improvement.

[Peter]

At the risk of paraphrasing a song Ellie, what have YOU done today to try to reverse the decline, (apart from talking that is)?

[alastair]

Try reading the latest addition of The Community News Marple, it has a great article by Peter about the lack and loss of great sites of interest in Marple.  An a Lead article about the debate over the Jolly Sailor.

My Question to you Ellie is this if we dont save the Jolly, one of the oldest pubs in the local area how do we start changing are own community.

If you guys need any help at all with anything technical like websites email or phone lines etc then let us at Hosting4U know we will help with anything (we are local to help local people)

ALASTAIR

Please could somebody explain to me why people are so upset about the proposed demolition of a complete eyesore when very few can bothered to do anything about the real problems in Marple?

Marple has been in a state of serious decline for many years, just look at the boarded up shops, litter and mess everywhere, the lack of anything even slightly cultural and the gangs of teenage yobs threatening and mugging people at the cash tills and off-licences.

The traffic in and out of Marple is a nightmare and the local councillor (who refused to do anything about the new lights in offerton other than to blame the local MP) has turned out to be a complete pervert who was only interested in teenage boys himself!

Come on, if you're going to get angry about anything, choose one of the above topics.

[Water Rat]

It comes just before rule 7 - go and have another beer!  You will need it.

Seriously though the Town and Country Planning Act was amended in 2000 with a new set of rules - organised through John Prescott's office.

These state ... and I potentially bore you ..


Rule 6 - Hearing Statements, and Other Comments
8. Under Rule 6:

(i) within 6 weeks of the starting date, the appellant and the local planning authority shall ensure that two copies of their written hearing statement have been received by the Secretary of State, and one copy has been received by any statutory party (Note: As defined by Rule 2 of the Rules). The hearing statement differs from the statement of case for inquiries in that it contains full particulars of the case that the appellant and the local planning authority wish to make at the hearing, including copies of any documents to which they wish to refer;

(ii) within such period as the Secretary of State may reasonably require, the appellant and the local planning authority must ensure that the Secretary of State has received two copies in writing of further information about the matters contained in their hearing statement as he may specify; this further material should also be copied to any statutory party;

(iii) within 6 weeks of the starting date, any statutory party and any third party who was notified at the application stage shall ensure that three copies of any comments they wish to make to the Secretary of State have been received by the Secretary of State;

(iv) within 9 weeks of the starting date, the appellant and the local planning authority must ensure that two copies of any comments either party wishes to make on: the other's hearing statement, the comments made by any statutory party or third party who was notified at the application stage, or comments made by any other party, are received by the Secretary of State. At the same time one copy of these documents should be sent to any statutory parties. The Secretary of State shall send a copy of the hearing statement and further information received from the appellant or the local planning authority to the other of those two parties, and shall send written comments made by third parties to the local planning authority and the appellant. The local planning authority shall make available for inspection copies of the pre-hearing statements and other associated documents on request and shall specify in their hearing statement where and when the documents may be inspected; and

(v) as soon as practicable after receipt, the Secretary of State shall send to the Inspector, any hearing statement, document, part of any document or written comments received by him within the relevant period specified for receipt. In the case of a non-transferred appeal, the Secretary of State, and in the case of a transferred appeal, the Inspector, may in determining the appeal disregard any comments which are received after the relevant period specified for receipt.

Wow!!!

What more can I say.  Hope that this helps.

[admin]

What does being awarded rule 6 status mean?

[Lisa Oldham]

The area committee rejected the new application last night.
WEve been awarded rule 6 status in the planning appeal from the last app so we now have to put up a full case together in the next 2 weeks...
Is there anyone out there with any relevant experience who might be able to help?

sorry, bit behind '>

Hope the meeting went well, though!

Be happy to donate webspace/mail accounts to use for the campaign if there's any need for them (either directly or by upping Mark's limits! ) or to supply 0870 numbers with answering/messaging services on in any configuration if helpful (see http://call4u.org.uk for details)

Look forward to hearing about it

[Peter]

I'm sorry I can't be there as I'm working but I will certainly be there in spirit.

Good luck
Peter