YES to a Supermarket on Hibbert Lane

[mum_of_2]

If the site was to become a supermarket, who would vow never to use it?

I think everyone in marple at sometime in the whole time the supermarket is there, will use it....whether its for a big shop, a few bits or just nipping in for bread.....nomatter how much they say they are against it....i just dont understand how the MIA can say they dont want it on hibbert lane due to traffic, pollution shops closing etc.....yet they wouldnt mind one closer to the town centre where the same problems COULD (they might not....nobody can say for sure) occur. Also what annoys me is how they can turn around and say that if there was a supermarket then thye would like some restrictions on what it can sell.....only groceries...no newspapers, flowers, electricals, clothes etc.....how dare they even concider doing something like that.....that is just going too far. they make me laugh!!

[alan@marple]

If the site was to become a supermarket, who would vow never to use it?

[Dave]

Thoughtful and balanced posts above - thank you.  And there's another issue which we should not forget: selling the site to a supermarket would, we are told, net the college £8 million more than if they sold it for another use, such as housing.  That is a big difference, and would enable the college to spend far more on badly needed enhancements to their facilities at Buxton Lane, for the benefit of the whole community.

[tina]

Thanks for posting that, HWL1973, very interesting. I am on the fence on this still. I was initially vaguely against but then became abit of a skeptic. There are alot of people 'on the fence' and also alot of people too scared to say they want a supermarket as they don't want to look like 'the bad guy' to their friends who are shopkeepers or big in MIA.

Reasons for slightly being against it for me is traffic and worries about local shops (howevere, I think it is more wider social changes that add to this and the shops seem to be closing anyway even without a Tesco/Asda). BUT I fully understand the need for a cheaper shop in marple where you can buy everything (not everyone can nip to stockport for a kettle, toaster etc and there are things you cannot get in Marple) which makes me vaguely for it, we struggled alot before we had a car/online shopping.

We use online shopping with one of the 'big 4'. Most of my friends in Marple do aswell but a few use Aldi or sainsburys in Hazel grove or Asda in hyde. So if everyone who does this changes to going local, would this outweigh the new traffic in? Can anyone give a view on that?

I also am skeptical about those who say it is only on Hibbert lane they are against a supermarket or that it is alright to have a supermarket as long as they don't sell practically everything other than food! I know of a few Tesco stores who got restrictions on pharmacies and clothes but there were many of those stores in the town. Marple has few clothes stores for those on low income so although I think it may restrict on pharmacies-I think it would be able to keep clothes and almost definately newspapers as all supermarkets seem to do them. I like M&Co when there is a sale but can't afford it otherwise as it is expensive. Charity shops are great but it is hit and miss as to what you can find. If you need a school uniform etc. you can't get it without travelling.

I also think it is shortsighted to think residents of chadwick street will want a supermarket there. I am sure the campaign would continue wherever the supermarket went. People on here have said that we don't need a supermarket, we have plenty-the co-op etc. but these people don't seem to be seeing the point of view of those on a low income who don't have cars or the means to do online shopping. When i said it was a struggle to do my shopping in marple-I was told kids can be obese these days (my kids are very slim) as they never walk and that i could easily get the bus (with several children) and go round several shops etc etc. If it was that easy/cost efficient , I would already be doing that.

As for ethics, yes the Co-op is one of the better supermarkets but just shopping there is only one thing on a long list of being ethical. I rarely holiday abroad and there are people who may shop at the co-op but fly on holiday alot or have 2 cars in a family etc etc. Many people use their heating when they could just wear a jumper etc. etc. or drive less than a mile away etc. there are many ways to be ethical, supermarket shopping is just one of them.

Well said JMC   I know alot of people who are on the fence. You make some very good points there. It is good to see the 3 sides of the debate.

[amazon]

Thanks for posting that, HWL1973, very interesting. I am on the fence on this still. I was initially vaguely against but then became abit of a skeptic. There are alot of people 'on the fence' and also alot of people too scared to say they want a supermarket as they don't want to look like 'the bad guy' to their friends who are shopkeepers or big in MIA.

Reasons for slightly being against it for me is traffic and worries about local shops (howevere, I think it is more wider social changes that add to this and the shops seem to be closing anyway even without a Tesco/Asda). BUT I fully understand the need for a cheaper shop in marple where you can buy everything (not everyone can nip to stockport for a kettle, toaster etc and there are things you cannot get in Marple) which makes me vaguely for it, we struggled alot before we had a car/online shopping.

We use online shopping with one of the 'big 4'. Most of my friends in Marple do aswell but a few use Aldi or sainsburys in Hazel grove or Asda in hyde. So if everyone who does this changes to going local, would this outweigh the new traffic in? Can anyone give a view on that?

I also am skeptical about those who say it is only on Hibbert lane they are against a supermarket or that it is alright to have a supermarket as long as they don't sell practically everything other than food! I know of a few Tesco stores who got restrictions on pharmacies and clothes but there were many of those stores in the town. Marple has few clothes stores for those on low income so although I think it may restrict on pharmacies-I think it would be able to keep clothes and almost definately newspapers as all supermarkets seem to do them. I like M&Co when there is a sale but can't afford it otherwise as it is expensive. Charity shops are great but it is hit and miss as to what you can find. If you need a school uniform etc. you can't get it without travelling.

I also think it is shortsighted to think residents of chadwick street will want a supermarket there. I am sure the campaign would continue wherever the supermarket went. People on here have said that we don't need a supermarket, we have plenty-the co-op etc. but these people don't seem to be seeing the point of view of those on a low income who don't have cars or the means to do online shopping. When i said it was a struggle to do my shopping in marple-I was told kids can be obese these days (my kids are very slim) as they never walk and that i could easily get the bus (with several children) and go round several shops etc etc. If it was that easy/cost efficient , I would already be doing that.

As for ethics, yes the Co-op is one of the better supermarkets but just shopping there is only one thing on a long list of being ethical. I rarely holiday abroad and there are people who may shop at the co-op but fly on holiday alot or have 2 cars in a family etc etc. Many people use their heating when they could just wear a jumper etc. etc. or drive less than a mile away etc. there are many ways to be ethical, supermarket shopping is just one of them.

                Good post fair points made .

[JMC]

Thanks for posting that, HWL1973, very interesting. I am on the fence on this still. I was initially vaguely against but then became abit of a skeptic. There are alot of people 'on the fence' and also alot of people too scared to say they want a supermarket as they don't want to look like 'the bad guy' to their friends who are shopkeepers or big in MIA.

Reasons for slightly being against it for me is traffic and worries about local shops (howevere, I think it is more wider social changes that add to this and the shops seem to be closing anyway even without a Tesco/Asda). BUT I fully understand the need for a cheaper shop in marple where you can buy everything (not everyone can nip to stockport for a kettle, toaster etc and there are things you cannot get in Marple) which makes me vaguely for it, we struggled alot before we had a car/online shopping.

We use online shopping with one of the 'big 4'. Most of my friends in Marple do aswell but a few use Aldi or sainsburys in Hazel grove or Asda in hyde. So if everyone who does this changes to going local, would this outweigh the new traffic in? Can anyone give a view on that?

I also am skeptical about those who say it is only on Hibbert lane they are against a supermarket or that it is alright to have a supermarket as long as they don't sell practically everything other than food! I know of a few Tesco stores who got restrictions on pharmacies and clothes but there were many of those stores in the town. Marple has few clothes stores for those on low income so although I think it may restrict on pharmacies-I think it would be able to keep clothes and almost definately newspapers as all supermarkets seem to do them. I like M&Co when there is a sale but can't afford it otherwise as it is expensive. Charity shops are great but it is hit and miss as to what you can find. If you need a school uniform etc. you can't get it without travelling.

I also think it is shortsighted to think residents of chadwick street will want a supermarket there. I am sure the campaign would continue wherever the supermarket went. People on here have said that we don't need a supermarket, we have plenty-the co-op etc. but these people don't seem to be seeing the point of view of those on a low income who don't have cars or the means to do online shopping. When i said it was a struggle to do my shopping in marple-I was told kids can be obese these days (my kids are very slim) as they never walk and that i could easily get the bus (with several children) and go round several shops etc etc. If it was that easy/cost efficient , I would already be doing that.

As for ethics, yes the Co-op is one of the better supermarkets but just shopping there is only one thing on a long list of being ethical. I rarely holiday abroad and there are people who may shop at the co-op but fly on holiday alot or have 2 cars in a family etc etc. Many people use their heating when they could just wear a jumper etc. etc. or drive less than a mile away etc. there are many ways to be ethical, supermarket shopping is just one of them.

[HWL1973]

The Yes facebook page now has a description which outlines its goals etc. Pasted in below. I know a lot of people were asking for such clarification so I hope this is useful for you:

We are broadly in favour of a new supermarket on Hibbert Lane in Marple. We are hoping that it would be big enough to compete with our existing supermarket, and provide much better value so that we are not forced into leaving Marple for our weekly shopping as so many are. If done correctly a new supermarket could provide an increase in overall employment opportunities, have a positive impact on tr...affic, increase passing trade to all local retailers, allow those without transport (and on low incomes) to shop far more affordably and offer a favourable overall outcome to all our community, young and old.

Furthermore, we see ourselves as a response to the Marple In Action (MIA) campaign which we think has used speculation and rumour to scare people into coming round to their point of view. We believe that their predictions on a hypermarket, traffic chaos, shop closures and the eradication of existing community facilities (without any concrete evidence to back them up) do the whole debate no favours at all.

Most importantly, we believe that the people of Marple should be allowed to see the plans for any new development on Hibbert Lane before passing final judgement on them, something that many ‘No’ campaigners are trying to deny us. As such we see our campaign as the natural home for the many people who wish to wait and see before making a decision.

Should these plans eventually show that the retailers in question indeed wish to build a hypermarket type store on the site in question, one totally out of proportion to the needs and infrastructure of Marple, then we of course reserve our right to change our minds. However, we feel that such a proposal would defy all logic and common sense.

We do not see ourselves as a mirror image of MIA in any way. We are not affiliated to any commercial organisation, political party or other pressure group, nor do we wish to be.

We intend to lobby local residents and other stakeholders into seeing that there are very much two sides to this argument. Ultimately we of course want the best for all the people of Marple and our wider community, we just believe in a different way of going about it.

[Dave]

At the moment it's SMBC (for 16 - 18 year olds), and this lot....http://skillsfundingagency.bis.gov.uk/
...for over 19s. But from next year this lot.....http://www.ypla.gov.uk/...will take over funding of the younger students. 

[Miss Marple]

Sorry, I posted before I'd finished!  I meant to add that even if the council gave the college the land for a new site, the college would still have to borrow the best part of £40 million, and there's no way they could afford that, or would be allowed to do that by their funders.   

Who funds them ?

[Dave]

Sorry, I posted before I'd finished!  I meant to add that even if the council gave the college the land for a new site, the college would still have to borrow the best part of £40 million, and there's no way they could afford that, or would be allowed to do that by their funders.   

[Dave]

Good point Neil.  The bit of those minutes that I was referring to was this:

'The options for each site and the possibility of moving to a single site were
discussed in detail, including planning considerations, different proposals for
buildings and facilities and the options for funding. The four funding
scenarios presented ranged from self funding, where energy saving works
and student retention works were undertaken, to extensive new build with a
£44-48 million gap in funding. [my bold type]
There were three recommendations resulting from the work undertaken :
? Undertake legislative compliance works and energy savings works
with a payback period of less than two years. The cost quoted for this
was £25k +VAT.
? Secure outline planning permission for work at the Cheadle campus.
The cost quoted for this was £70k +VAT.
? Initiate discussions regarding options for the Marple campus. The
cost quoted for this was £10 – 20k +VAT.'


But you're right to draw attention to the other section, which shows the college still engaging in discussions with SMBC about the possibility of moving on to a single site.   

That said, the very high cost of this option is mentioned again ('a need to borrow significant amounts of additional funds'), and I still think that will make it a non-starter in the end.  Perhaps the college is still talking to the council about this option in the hope that the council might help out in some way - perhaps by giving them the land?   Fat chance of that, I suspect!   

[NeilCorrie]

Can we just lay to rest this 'rumour' about the college moving away from Marple. It's not difficult to spot its origin: the governors' minutes previously quoted on this forum list a few options which they considered. One of these was to consolidate all three camsfc campuses on to a new site with a completely new building. However, the governors rejected this on the grounds of cost. It simply ain't going to happen.

Just out of interest Dave, would you be able to post a link to the minutes where this was rejected ?

He did in this post: http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.msg17618#msg17618

When I read the minutes of 17th June 2010 I don't come to the conclusion that consolidation had been rejected on grounds of cost.  I got the impression it was one of three options being actively considered.


AHU talked to the paper detailing the options in relation to the Estates Strategy recommended by Principalship (paper previously circulated – deemed confidential on grounds of commercial sensitivity). There appeared to be three clear avenues to follow in the short and long term, briefly summarised as:

• Try to obtain planning consent for development at Cheadle. The cost of planning consultants was estimated at £25 - £30 k, although this was subject to confirmation and had the potential to be more. A tender process would be involved.
• Continue discussions with the Local Authority about the possibility of moving to a single site. The risk associated with moving to one site was that there could be a need to borrow significant amounts of  additional funds.
• Investigate options for the Marple campus. Initially any consultancy fees could be kept to a minimum.

Estates Committee agreed that the College should move forward in a way that did not prejudice the final view taken. Dialogue would continue with the Local Authority. The Corporation would need to be sure that all the proposed options were being reviewed thoroughly.

The Committee recommended for approval by Corporation that the Estates Strategy be progressed as detailed in the three options recommended by Principalship.

[admin]

Can we just lay to rest this 'rumour' about the college moving away from Marple. It's not difficult to spot its origin: the governors' minutes previously quoted on this forum list a few options which they considered. One of these was to consolidate all three camsfc campuses on to a new site with a completely new building. However, the governors rejected this on the grounds of cost. It simply ain't going to happen.

Just out of interest Dave, would you be able to post a link to the minutes where this was rejected ?

He did in this post: http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?topic=3554.msg17618#msg17618

[sgk]

Can we just lay to rest this 'rumour' about the college moving away from Marple. It's not difficult to spot its origin: the governors' minutes previously quoted on this forum list a few options which they considered. One of these was to consolidate all three camsfc campuses on to a new site with a completely new building. However, the governors rejected this on the grounds of cost. It simply ain't going to happen.

Just out of interest Dave, would you be able to post a link to the minutes where this was rejected ?

[admin]

I have received complaints about certain posts in this topic and they have been removed to a hidden area. As I am at work at the moment that is all I can currently do. People need to calm down, be more polite in what they post and also less ready to take offence when none may be intended. I will try to provide some guidelines about complaining later as I suspect we are going to need them. Admin