Rebuild of CAMSFC/Rose Hill school

[Dave]

I see what you mean - it's a long list of adult education and part-time courses, but on closer examination most seem to be run at Cheadle rather than Marple. I wonder why? Maybe it's because we're all so well educated already ;-). Although I see you can do tap dancing on a Wednesday evening - now that might suit you, Duke!

[Duke Fame]

I drive past Aquinas on the way back from work and at 8pm it's very busy with additional evening classes being ran.I don't see that happening at Marple.

Maybe that's because you can't see Marple from the A6     If you could you might have a nice surprise:   http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/adult-learning/Adult%20Prospectuses/2011-2012%20AdultProspectus.pdf

However, I happen to know (because I used to work at a college) that these courses don't earn serious income - they just about cover their costs, that's all.  The only way colleges of this sort can significantly increase their income is by enrolling and retaining full-time students.

Not sure what you mean. There is very little evening activity in Marple and therefore, the buildings are not being fully utilised.
My old college used to make a fortune running eveing courses. I completed institute of banking exams and some early rounds of acountancy professional courses, there is big money in professional education.

[Dave]

I drive past Aquinas on the way back from work and at 8pm it's very busy with additional evening classes being ran.I don't see that happening at Marple.

Maybe that's because you can't see Marple from the A6     If you could you might have a nice surprise:   http://www.camsfc.ac.uk/assets/file/adult-learning/Adult%20Prospectuses/2011-2012%20AdultProspectus.pdf

However, I happen to know (because I used to work at a college) that these courses don't earn serious income - they just about cover their costs, that's all.  The only way colleges of this sort can significantly increase their income is by enrolling and retaining full-time students.

[Duke Fame]

That last point is an interesting one, although I suspect there may be restrictions (for ten years after sale?) on building on the college's former playing fields etc. This could limit the land value, obviously.

Re 'improving income by being better at being a college', surely that is exactly what the college is trying to do.  The only way they can significantly improve income is by attracting more students.  That means competing more effectively with Aquinas, which has lots of nice (and efficient) new buildings.  Camsfc, on the other hand, has outdated and unattractive buildings which were built for another use (a secondary school) and which are therefore being used inefficiently.  Their heating and maintenance costs will also be relatively high.  Increase income by attracting and retaining more students: reduce expenditure by cutting running costs  - it's a no brainer, surely! 

When I refer to selling part of the campus, I mean the existing buildings.

This inefficient & unattractive buildings argument doesn't wash with me. Oxford Univisities don't have too much of a problem attracting pupils despite the old Polly having more modern buildings. It's the courses and the value of the qualification that attracts pupils not an aversion to post art-deco period buildings, I feel a new build at buxton Lane will be more fo a vanity project than a serious attempt at improving the education of kids.

I drive past Aquinas on the way back from work and at 8pm it's very busy with additional evening classes being ran.I don't see that happening at Marple.

[Dave]

That last point is an interesting one, although I suspect there may be restrictions (for ten years after sale?) on building on the college's former playing fields etc. This could limit the land value, obviously.

Re 'improving income by being better at being a college', surely that is exactly what the college is trying to do.  The only way they can significantly improve income is by attracting more students.  That means competing more effectively with Aquinas, which has lots of nice (and efficient) new buildings.  Camsfc, on the other hand, has outdated and unattractive buildings which were built for another use (a secondary school) and which are therefore being used inefficiently.  Their heating and maintenance costs will also be relatively high.  Increase income by attracting and retaining more students: reduce expenditure by cutting running costs  - it's a no brainer, surely! 

[Duke Fame]

The obvious question for the college is do they really need new buildings. If they don't sell Hibbert Lane, they will not receive £12m but they will not need to rebuild their Buxton lane site. THe college is reletively under-utilised in the evenings, surely the business case for the college is not to raise money for the college by selling property but rather improving income by being better at being a college.

I can also see options for the college to sell part of their campus without needing to lose capacity and not need to rebuild buxton lane.

[Dave]

Also you say the existing building which I agree is an eyesore, will be knocked down and replaced with a new one

I can't see that happening, simply because the college would not be able to afford it.  As you say, any new building would have to be much bigger then the present Buxton Lane premises, to accommodate all students from both campuses.  Even with some borrowing on top of the estimated £12 million from the sale of Hibbert Lane, the money probably won't go that far.  So I think we'll see a mixture of additional new buildings on the Buxton Lane site, combined with refurbishment of the present ones. 

[jethroh65]

I just want to pick up on your point 5... I didn't mean JUST the tennis court for parking I ment for it to join with the current carpark. that then would be a bigger car park.
also the school there is big you can't miss it, its big and its ugly. How can having a brand new building be as bad as that? it would be built on the same land as to where the current building is. It used to be a high school, with hundreds of children using it daily. I used it my brother and sister used it. The houses surrounding it have always had a huge building in their view, it would just be replaced with a new one what will last for many many years and provide higher education for our future generation.
As for where the children of the future are going to live. I was lucky and was able to get a mortgage. but it is already happening. My son and his family have to privately rent as there is no way they could afford a mortgage, rent alone these days is scary. So I don't believe a new school is really going to make a difference to that side of the argument.
Yes new houses need to be built, but they are still expensive and some people don't like them being built either, there is always going to be a 'NO' and 'YES' to every development.
[/quote]

If the land that Tennis court occupies is joined onto the existing car park I still don't think it will provide enough room for all the cars that
currently park on the Hibbert Lane. It will end up with parking like it is on the open/parent's evenings at college i.e cars parked on both sides of Buxton Lane and the side roads. This happens every open evening and stops being able to park outside my own house.
Also you say the existing building which I agree is an eyesore, will be knocked down and replaced with a new one The new would have to be at least 3 times the size to accommodate the transfer of students from Hibbert Lane. Yes there was there was an High school there before but that was before I lived in there area so I am not sure what it was like at the time ? But high school kids won't have been travelling to school in cars like many of the students at the college do !

As for the point about the housing, I don't mean to say that a new school would stop children living in the area, what I meant to say was, that rather than a new supermarket I would prefer some sought of low cost housing on the area rather than a new supermarket.

My eldest is off to Uni next week, and when she finishes in 3 years and hopefully starts a new career how will she be able to stay in the
area she grew up in ?

[bluebelly]

well said tina..

[tina]

[
[/quote]

5. Also I am sure that the most of the people around the Buxton Lane area are not that impressed about the thought of another High rise building on the site and all the associated traffic,Parking problems etc.
So your theory is that all the cars that are presently on the Hibbert Lane Car Park will fit in the space where the Tennis courts are? I doubt it, & the New Building will be on the Green Field between the 2 sets of houses between Buxton Lane & Carver Rd Area ? Nice view outlook for all the residents that will be!

People have moved to or stay in this area they like the area as it is, why is change and new always deemed to be better "moving with the times".

And once our children in the future have finished their education at the brand new all singing all dancing college, where are they going to be able to afford to live in Marple?
Maybe they'll come back to visit us now and again & do their shopping at the New Asda!!!



[/quote]

I just want to pick up on your point 5... I didn't mean JUST the tennis court for parking I ment for it to join with the current carpark. that then would be a bigger car park.
also the school there is big you can't miss it, its big and its ugly. How can having a brand new building be as bad as that? it would be built on the same land as to where the current building is. It used to be a high school, with hundreds of children using it daily. I used it my brother and sister used it. The houses surrounding it have always had a huge building in their view, it would just be replaced with a new one what will last for many many years and provide higher education for our future generation.
As for where the children of the future are going to live. I was lucky and was able to get a mortgage. but it is already happening. My son and his family have to privately rent as there is no way they could afford a mortgage, rent alone these days is scary. So I don't believe a new school is really going to make a difference to that side of the argument.
Yes new houses need to be built, but they are still expensive and some people don't like them being built either, there is always going to be a 'NO' and 'YES' to every development.

[HWL1973]

Yes, you are right with that. Nothing worse than a NIMBY moving into a property knowing what is next to it, or being proposed for nearby, and then still complaining. Well, there are things worse but you know what I mean  . However, we did move to that Rd before all these plans came out.

I take your point about people living near to the Hibbert Lane campus. But I also think they are being scared into believing a hypermarket is afoot, for which there is no evidence. Surely no informed decision can be made until any plans are actually submitted?

[Rachael]

I have started this new thread re camsfc/rose hill  to put a few points across about the new build what is happening at Rose Hill and hopefully at Buxton Lane.
There is method to my madness so please bear with me.

When Peacefield/Rose Hill and the Dale merged into 1 school 2 years ago there was uproar.
But 2 years on... the new building is coming on nicely and is being built as 2 floors. The children's education has not really been disrupted and have all coped with it well... my son has just left and had great sats results, his class room was demolished earlier this year and was being taught in the mobile classrooms. If a 11yr old can cope with change then I'm sure the 16+ can cope just as well. Rose Hill is going to be modern and will last for a very long time. will not be a drain on school budgets etc.... Now at the moment there is talk that IF the Hibbert Lane site is sold the money will go towards rebuilding the Buxton Lane site. This can only be a good thing I'm sure? The college will therefore go on for many more years teaching our future generations. If it doesn't go ahead then both sites will keep draining the colleges budget and therefore no money left to keep the building up to date and will in the end close. I would prefer the college get the highest bid for it and have a modern college, rather than it crumble away.
Also the building at present on Buxton Lane is 5 floors but a MIA member has stated a new building would be intrusive to the residents and that parking would become a problem. The site is still the same as when I went to high school. the parking spaces was intended for staff. I'm sure once a new college is built a car park would be in place to accommodate the students (the tennis courts what are a eyesore at present could also be used?)

I know people don't like change its well documented on this very site. But we have to move with the times and think of our future generations. I would like my sons to be able to go to a local college what is modern and up to date and not my old crumbling down high school. I would like their children in time to also benefit from it too!

Now can we keep this topic on topic and put your views across as adults without shouting or insulting anyone and no mention of a supermarket as this is not about that its about what would be good for the college and the community.

And once our children in the future have finished their education at the brand new all singing all dancing college, where are they going to be able to afford to live in Marple?
Maybe they'll come back to visit us now and again & do their shopping at the New Asda!!!

I think that is going to apply in many areas  for young people    ...  we bought our house 15 years ago ,   but the bottom line is, that if we were looking at buying our house  ( the same house ) now,  we simply would not be able to afford it .

[jethroh65]

jethro,

my own house is on Elmfield Drive. Yes the new school is bigger than before but then it's really not that bad, and it's great that the kids have new facilities. My perspective is to try not to be a NIMBY at all costs, I usually have more important things to worry about. But then I also appreciate that others don't share this view, although I don't generally agree with them.

I suppose if you live on Elmfield Drive already and are used to the school being there, the new build will be less of an issue. And you are happy with the increase in traffic and parking issues, fair comment.
Less reason to be a NIMBY.

I would say however that if you live near the proposed site of the new supermarket or near the proposed new build on Buxton Lane, both of which don't exist at present,you would have a different perspective on things.
No doubt from reading your comments on various posts you will keep playing Devil's Advocate!!!

Cheers!!

[JMC]

I think it is terrible that they shut the two schools. I have heard rumours that they want to close the other remaining school but was told it was a playground rumour (wouldn't surprise me though by the council's prior actions and also by looking at the surplus places for the two schools, from the last figures they could close the other school and cram them all into Rose Hill!)

I agree the traffic was dreadful at Rose Hill already. People constantly mounting the kerbs on Elmfield drive etc. Also have been told by a parent that the increased numbers in the playground haven't been met by increase of midday staff etc. Whether that is the case or one person's opinion is a matter of debate.

I personally would not like my child to go to a superschool. The plans looked awful to me. Stairs and kids do not mix with open balconies. Rose Hill was pretty big before. Are superschools the best thing for children or to save money?

[HWL1973]

jethro,

my own house is on Elmfield Drive. Yes the new school is bigger than before but then it's really not that bad, and it's great that the kids have new facilities. My perspective is to try not to be a NIMBY at all costs, I usually have more important things to worry about. But then I also appreciate that others don't share this view, although I don't generally agree with them.