TRAINS

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When I have had to return by train on a Sunday, I have found a train to Stockport then a bus works well, as the bus is fast when the roads are clear.   For a Sunday service to be useful to me at Rose Hill, I think it was have to be at least very hour, if not every half hour.

So at off peak time, should we be having fewer trains but more busses?

             ok but would people use on a sunday or would they be running nearly empty /

[ringi]

When I have had to return by train on a Sunday, I have found a train to Stockport then a bus works well, as the bus is fast when the roads are clear.   For a Sunday service to be useful to me at Rose Hill, I think it was have to be at least very hour, if not every half hour.

So at off peak time, should we be having fewer trains but more busses?

[Duke Fame]

And if we ever want a rail link to Stockport, it would have to be a tram link (via Bredbury, Portwood, Great Egerton st and the bus station, eventually connecting up with the new East Didsbury line, giving us a very welcome connection to South Manchester just like the days of the old Midland line).

Blimey rsh - is that remotely possible? I'd like to think so, but hasn't the old rail line between Bredbury and Stockport been built over?

The route has been listed as an aspiration for some time, so it must be possible somehow! Not strictly following the old Midland line, but serving similar areas. It might unfortunately require an expensive new bridge or two over the M60, depending on whether Brinnington was served, but similar structures are going up for lines to Wythenshawe and elsewhere...

Once you get to Portwood roundabout, the route is already reserved - see the neat tramline-sized gap between the new Sainsbury's and the motorway. The (unfortunately somewhat dead) regeneration plans for Bridgefield also highlighted the route, even showing a tram with "Marple" on the front below the viaduct!

I take it they are the same gauge? If so, there is no issue. Of tehy are cheaper to run, why not just electrify across to Sheffield and tram all the way or is it a speed issue?

The trouble with trams and trains though is they are very inefficient at taking up space. Surely a bus is better and cheaper to put in.  

Sheffield probably wouldn't be suitable for trams, but perhaps running to New Mills or Chinley wouldn't be too far out.

I'm sure there's quite a lot of research somewhere to show that people won't switch from a car to a bus, but build rails and they'll happily jump on.

Sheffield had trams before Mancland.

There is something in your dastardly plan though. Perhaps Marple / Swan Mills could be the tram Terminus and the sheff train starts. That would free up space at picadilly which is a major problem.

I still think we should close rose hill, have a cable car / light monorail linking Marple station to Stockport station

[rsh]

And if we ever want a rail link to Stockport, it would have to be a tram link (via Bredbury, Portwood, Great Egerton st and the bus station, eventually connecting up with the new East Didsbury line, giving us a very welcome connection to South Manchester just like the days of the old Midland line).

Blimey rsh - is that remotely possible? I'd like to think so, but hasn't the old rail line between Bredbury and Stockport been built over?

The route has been listed as an aspiration for some time, so it must be possible somehow! Not strictly following the old Midland line, but serving similar areas. It might unfortunately require an expensive new bridge or two over the M60, depending on whether Brinnington was served, but similar structures are going up for lines to Wythenshawe and elsewhere...

Once you get to Portwood roundabout, the route is already reserved - see the neat tramline-sized gap between the new Sainsbury's and the motorway. The (unfortunately somewhat dead) regeneration plans for Bridgefield also highlighted the route, even showing a tram with "Marple" on the front below the viaduct!

I take it they are the same gauge? If so, there is no issue. Of tehy are cheaper to run, why not just electrify across to Sheffield and tram all the way or is it a speed issue?

The trouble with trams and trains though is they are very inefficient at taking up space. Surely a bus is better and cheaper to put in.  

Sheffield probably wouldn't be suitable for trams, but perhaps running to New Mills or Chinley wouldn't be too far out.

I'm sure there's quite a lot of research somewhere to show that people won't switch from a car to a bus, but build rails and they'll happily jump on.

[amazon]

And if we ever want a rail link to Stockport, it would have to be a tram link (via Bredbury, Portwood, Great Egerton st and the bus station, eventually connecting up with the new East Didsbury line, giving us a very welcome connection to South Manchester just like the days of the old Midland line).

Blimey rsh - is that remotely possible? I'd like to think so, but hasn't the old rail line between Bredbury and Stockport been built over?

.                        Yip filled in and built on in parts .part of it is open from the Woolley line as. Far as the cement works wagons still use it from the tip or incinerator works or whatever they call it now and to take stone to the cement works after that forget it .

[Duke Fame]

I take it they are the same gauge? If so, there is no issue. Of tehy are cheaper to run, why not just electrify across to Sheffield and tram all the way or is it a speed issue?

The trouble with trams and trains though is they are very inefficient at taking up space. Surely a bus is better and cheaper to put in. 

[Dave]

And if we ever want a rail link to Stockport, it would have to be a tram link (via Bredbury, Portwood, Great Egerton st and the bus station, eventually connecting up with the new East Didsbury line, giving us a very welcome connection to South Manchester just like the days of the old Midland line).

Blimey rsh - is that remotely possible? I'd like to think so, but hasn't the old rail line between Bredbury and Stockport been built over?

[rsh]

What advantage does this have over the train? The train is a two crriage, 2-3 time an hour service into manc which has the advantage of going into the peaks. A tram will be a 2-3 times an hour service going into manc that doesn't service the peaks!

Besides the fact we'd get clean, quiet, electric trams rather than clapped-out Pacers? The idea of the "tram-trains" which are being mooted for our lines is that regular trains can still run alongside them. So Marple could retain one platform for heavy rail through to Sheffield, while Rose Hill could come into its own as a Metrolink terminus. I'd expect services at least every 15 minutes from both stations at peak times and a massively improved evening and Sunday service. The cost of running a light electric tram with only a driver is far less than a heavy, diesel-glugging Pacer with added conductor.

Trams would run through Piccadilly right into the centre of Manchester and beyond (Wigan via Atherton has been mentioned). And of course it's beneficial for Marple itself to be part of this network. Same ticketing, same service information. Not just for us but for visitors to Marple. Add us onto the Metrolink map and a visit to the canal locks, etc suddenly looks like a much more inviting prospect for someone familiar with the network from Bury, Eccles, ...

And if we ever want a rail link to Stockport, it would have to be a tram link (via Bredbury, Portwood, Great Egerton st and the bus station, eventually connecting up with the new East Didsbury line, giving us a very welcome connection to South Manchester just like the days of the old Midland line).

[Duke Fame]

What advantage does this have over the train? The train is a two crriage, 2-3 time an hour service into manc which has the advantage of going into the peaks. A tram will be a 2-3 times an hour service going into manc that doesn't service the peaks!

I just see a way of making mr Leese' Quango look more important.

I'd not trust that man to spend £3m on a Tiff brochure (actually he's managed that but I'd still like to see the receipts)

[hollins]

Six trains in the morning peak and five leaving Manchester in the afternoon and early evening will have extra seats.

I wish Northern Rail would make up their minds exactly which services they are lengthening - it seems to be different every day!

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Good post this interesting thanks for the info

[rsh]

In the dim and distant past, when the metro tram system was being planned, one of the lines which were promised first was to Marple.  This got quietly forgotten (but not by all of us!!) and never materialised.  Maybe we could start campaigning for this to be resurrected?

Yes please! Indeed, in both the original 1984 and 1987 proposals Marple would have been connected to Bury, providing the key "Picc-Vic" link.



The plans were scaled back for cost savings and in 1988 it was decided simply to convert and join the Bury and Altrincham lines with a dead-end spur to Piccadilly.  There's a good Wikipedia page on all this, to save me jabbering on more!: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Manchester_Metrolink

The plans for Marple seem to always be there, near the top of the pile, just constantly pushed back. Besides funding, they're now apparently waiting for the "results" of a tram-train trial for the Sheffield Supertram, which will link that system over heavy rail to Rotherham. Marple was keenly promoted to be given this trial, but for whatever reason (probably less potential disruption to existing services) Sheffield got it instead.

Stockport are still leaving space for a new line into the town from Bredbury (see the plans for the new Sainsbury's), and this plan below shows how the current line from Marple to Piccadilly would use a fly-over to cross the other lines at Ashburys, then running on-road for a short stretch into the ground floor undercroft of the station:



So plans are still washing around, maybe we just need to be more vocal in support of the idea?

In any case, I'd still like to see timetable improvements as a short-term solution. ...Sorry for the long post!

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Drive to Stockport and park for free at the station on Sundays. Then you can get a train into Manchester; there is one every 10 minutes or so.

That's all very well but I struggle driving in a straight line when I come back from having a skinfull.

Very good point.  I wonder how many lives would be saved if public transport kept running over the festive season, as it does in most other countries?

Trouble is, as we've seen in London, are the union dominated train drivers too lazy to work on their normal days.

       the tube will eventually become driverless . 

[Duke Fame]

Drive to Stockport and park for free at the station on Sundays. Then you can get a train into Manchester; there is one every 10 minutes or so.

That's all very well but I struggle driving in a straight line when I come back from having a skinfull.

Very good point.  I wonder how many lives would be saved if public transport kept running over the festive season, as it does in most other countries?

Trouble is, as we've seen in London, are the union dominated train drivers too lazy to work on their normal days.

[Dave]

Drive to Stockport and park for free at the station on Sundays. Then you can get a train into Manchester; there is one every 10 minutes or so.

That's all very well but I struggle driving in a straight line when I come back from having a skinfull.

Very good point.  I wonder how many lives would be saved if public transport kept running over the festive season, as it does in most other countries?