Entering and Exiting the Co-Op Petrol Station

[Djmell]

I don't quite understand why everyone is getting so upset over an issue that will become irrelevant soon anyway.

Once the new ASDA is built, a super-cheap petrol station will come with it that will be open 24 hours a day, with NO access/exit issues. There will most likely be a small shop service with it (separate to the main store) that will also be 24 hours a day and will remove from the existing business the sales volume required to run a unit like the Texaco/Somerfield store. Texcao will most likely close down following the loss of sales volume and no-one will need to worry about a few cars turning the wrong way out of  the petrol station as it will become a wasteland cordoned off by metal linked fences. Cyclist will be able to break in and perform 'wheelies' and tricks on the large area of concrete wasteland, interspersed with weeds breaking through!

Presumably this will make all the people concerned over this issue happy!

Really, perhaps we should have a thread dedicated to it.

You may have a plan there :-)

[Duke Fame]

I don't quite understand why everyone is getting so upset over an issue that will become irrelevant soon anyway.

Once the new ASDA is built, a super-cheap petrol station will come with it that will be open 24 hours a day, with NO access/exit issues. There will most likely be a small shop service with it (separate to the main store) that will also be 24 hours a day and will remove from the existing business the sales volume required to run a unit like the Texaco/Somerfield store. Texcao will most likely close down following the loss of sales volume and no-one will need to worry about a few cars turning the wrong way out of  the petrol station as it will become a wasteland cordoned off by metal linked fences. Cyclist will be able to break in and perform 'wheelies' and tricks on the large area of concrete wasteland, interspersed with weeds breaking through!

Presumably this will make all the people concerned over this issue happy!

Really, perhaps we should have a thread dedicated to it.

[Djmell]

I don't quite understand why everyone is getting so upset over an issue that will become irrelevant soon anyway.

Once the new ASDA is built, a super-cheap petrol station will come with it that will be open 24 hours a day, with NO access/exit issues. There will most likely be a small shop service with it (separate to the main store) that will also be 24 hours a day and will remove from the existing business the sales volume required to run a unit like the Texaco/Somerfield store. Texcao will most likely close down following the loss of sales volume and no-one will need to worry about a few cars turning the wrong way out of  the petrol station as it will become a wasteland cordoned off by metal linked fences. Cyclist will be able to break in and perform 'wheelies' and tricks on the large area of concrete wasteland, interspersed with weeds breaking through!

Presumably this will make all the people concerned over this issue happy!

[Lily]

The point of commuting on a bike is to be able to 'safely' pass slow moving and stationary traffic to get to your destination quicker than a driver.  However, as a road user, a cyclist should follow the highway code.

'Some' car drivers are weird with bikes.  I know, as I have had my fair share of bad experiences with both male and female drivers. 

Most drivers are great, and if I have my flashing white light on - on my handlebars (steady light on the frame) and have been 'spotted' in a mirror these 'great' drivers will move over to let me pass and I'm sure they all appreciate my acknowledgement of thanks.

Just one more point for 'some' car drivers.  Please give cyclists a little more room when overtaking them.  That 2.5cm deep pothole or little bit of debris in the road is nothing to a car but to a cyclist it can be a major hazard that we have to try and avoid.

[Duke Fame]

Maybe part of this topic should be split from 'Entering and Exiting'.

As a cyclist who has commuted for almost 15 years in wet, snow, ice, dark, and light conditions and also regularly reach over 30 mph going down Dan Bank I have never failed to stop at the red lights at the bottom (and then also had to stop at the red lights at Seventeen Windows before going left). I also stop at pedestrian crossings when required, go the correct way on 'one way' streets and avoid riding on footpaths unless it is a joint cycle path.
If you don't feel you can stop safely if the road is wet then it is obvious you are going too fast and not in control of your vehicle (be it two or four wheels).
Traffic lights, and road signage, are there for a reason and if we all ignored them just think of the accidents that could occur.

I can't see the point of the bike unless you can jump the lights. I don't go flying across, I just overtake the queue then look for a decent gap and go for it as if I were a pedestrian.

Car drivers are weird with bikes, I had one rotund lady in a Citroen Picasso (lightblue / silver) go to such an effort to block my path before Christmas, I had to go around her and the tried to crush me with her car against the bus in front.

[Lily]

Maybe part of this topic should be split from 'Entering and Exiting'.

As a cyclist who has commuted for almost 15 years in wet, snow, ice, dark, and light conditions and also regularly reach over 30 mph going down Dan Bank I have never failed to stop at the red lights at the bottom (and then also had to stop at the red lights at Seventeen Windows before going left). I also stop at pedestrian crossings when required, go the correct way on 'one way' streets and avoid riding on footpaths unless it is a joint cycle path.
If you don't feel you can stop safely if the road is wet then it is obvious you are going too fast and not in control of your vehicle (be it two or four wheels).
Traffic lights, and road signage, are there for a reason and if we all ignored them just think of the accidents that could occur.

[Dave]

if it's clear to cross, do you begrudge a pedestrian crossing whilst traffic is stationary? I ask as it's exactly the same as a cyclist.

No it isn't.  A pedestrian can perfectly legally cross the road while traffic is stationary.  Indeed, s/he can also ignore a red light at a pedestrian crossing without committing any offence.  On the other hand, a cyclist running a red light commits an offence carrying a £30 fixed penalty. 

I'm getting a bit worried about Duke.  Defending illegal flyposters, trading in black-market videos, ignoring red traffic lights - where will it end?   

[Duke Fame]

Why would anyone ignore the signs?

Because they are so obviously ridiculous, and are ignored by anyone with a grain of commonsense,  including the Co-op delivery drivers, tanker drivers etc etc.   It's not the law, it's just something dreamed up by a few bossy people in a room at SMBC Planning Dept.

I'm surprised at you, Duke.  I thought you Daily Mail readers didn't approve of the Nanny State. 

It's not the SMBC who issue the guidelines. The guidelines are clear, there should be a one way system that avoids congestion at the entrance to avoid traffic backing up into the main carriageway and the entrance-end should provide space for cars waiting for the pumps.

It's all logical to someone like me and I therefore observe etiquette. Some people are obviously not quite as bright as me which is understandable. 

I don't like an all powerful nanny state and think people with a little common sense can understand where dangers exist and be sensible. Obviously, this example proves there are a lot of ignorant self-centred people who will forsake other people's safety for their own convenience and perhaps my faith in human nature is too great.

You're absolutely right Duke, the example of running a red light, surely the most basic and non-negotiable of all road 'signage' just goes to show there are 'ignorant and self-centered people' using the roads.  How do we expect other road users to take notice of, say, purely advisory signs on a garage forecourt when people are running red lights.  Doesn't it just go to show that there are people who will lecture others but don't think the rules apply to them.

Of a morning there is little choice at the foot of Dan Bank, in the wet I'm simply not going to stop and stay in control. Of the others, if it's clear to cross, do you begrudge a pedestrian crossing whilst traffic is stationary? I ask as it's exactly the same as a cyclist.

[Steptoe and Son]

Why would anyone ignore the signs?

Because they are so obviously ridiculous, and are ignored by anyone with a grain of commonsense,  including the Co-op delivery drivers, tanker drivers etc etc.   It's not the law, it's just something dreamed up by a few bossy people in a room at SMBC Planning Dept.

I'm surprised at you, Duke.  I thought you Daily Mail readers didn't approve of the Nanny State. 

It's not the SMBC who issue the guidelines. The guidelines are clear, there should be a one way system that avoids congestion at the entrance to avoid traffic backing up into the main carriageway and the entrance-end should provide space for cars waiting for the pumps.

It's all logical to someone like me and I therefore observe etiquette. Some people are obviously not quite as bright as me which is understandable. 

I don't like an all powerful nanny state and think people with a little common sense can understand where dangers exist and be sensible. Obviously, this example proves there are a lot of ignorant self-centred people who will forsake other people's safety for their own convenience and perhaps my faith in human nature is too great.

You're absolutely right Duke, the example of running a red light, surely the most basic and non-negotiable of all road 'signage' just goes to show there are 'ignorant and self-centered people' using the roads.  How do we expect other road users to take notice of, say, purely advisory signs on a garage forecourt when people are running red lights.  Doesn't it just go to show that there are people who will lecture others but don't think the rules apply to them.

[Dave]

It's not the SMBC who issue the guidelines.

Who is it then?

I don't see any of the other local petrol stations enforcing a one-way system and none of them seem to have any difficulty.

Neither did this one until recently.  It was probably imposed by over-zealous planning officers when the Co-op supermarket was added.  Eventually they will presumably either enforce it, or get rid of the no-exit sign and revert to how things used to be.  I can't see them enforcing it; even if they have the legal powers, can anyone see the Co-op delivery trucks and the tankers threading their way up Church Lane?   

[Duke Fame]

WRT ‘fly posting’ these must be the politest fly posters ever who take their posters down every Sunday afternoon. It’s no more of a problem than the Marple 10k race organisers with their meddlesome ‘CAUTION runners in the road’

Having run this a few times myself, I wonder if you are getting mixed up. The race is along the Middlewood Way and back along the canal. At no time does it go on a road.

And bearing in mind that when retired, many fire officers take up positions as H&S officers, I'm sure they would ensure they are complying with the law.

It's not really the point, be it a road race or cycle race, they put up signs like these: or

[Howard]

WRT ‘fly posting’ these must be the politest fly posters ever who take their posters down every Sunday afternoon. It’s no more of a problem than the Marple 10k race organisers with their meddlesome ‘CAUTION runners in the road’

Having run this a few times myself, I wonder if you are getting mixed up. The race is along the Middlewood Way and back along the canal. At no time does it go on a road.

And bearing in mind that when retired, many fire officers take up positions as H&S officers, I'm sure they would ensure they are complying with the law.

[hollins]

Logic suggests that to prevent backing up and congestion on the carriageway it would be preferable (but certainly not obligatory) to visit a petrol station on the same side of the road as you are travelling. Given the side of the road that Somerfield/Texaco is placed then this means that, if you were to enforce a one-way system, cars travelling from Marple Town Centre toward Stockport, with entry on the Marple Town Centre end and exit on the Stockport end. (Yes, this has been suggested earlier in this thread!)

That said, I don't see any of the other local petrol stations enforcing a one-way system and none of them seem to have any difficulty. A little bit of flexibility seems to reduce congestion. Moreover, there certainly is plenty of room on the forecourt to go round the pumps and exit from the end you came in.

I suggest that you don't disobey the signage for now, but ask for it to be changed so that entry and exit is permitted at the easier end, preferably with some white lines to divide traffic streams.

To be honest, it's not a great place to site a petrol station: right on a very complicated junction.

[marveld]

Duke Fame wrote:

WRT ‘fly posting’ these must be the politest fly posters ever who take their posters down every Sunday afternoon. It’s no more of a problem than the Marple 10k race organisers with their meddlesome ‘CAUTION runners in the road’

Question: The Marple 10k as all off road, so why would the organisers use 'CAUTION runners in the road' signs? Where do they locate these signs?

[Duke Fame]

Why would anyone ignore the signs?

Because they are so obviously ridiculous, and are ignored by anyone with a grain of commonsense,  including the Co-op delivery drivers, tanker drivers etc etc.   It's not the law, it's just something dreamed up by a few bossy people in a room at SMBC Planning Dept.

I'm surprised at you, Duke.  I thought you Daily Mail readers didn't approve of the Nanny State. 

It's not the SMBC who issue the guidelines. The guidelines are clear, there should be a one way system that avoids congestion at the entrance to avoid traffic backing up into the main carriageway and the entrance-end should provide space for cars waiting for the pumps.

It's all logical to someone like me and I therefore observe etiquette. Some people are obviously not quite as bright as me which is understandable. 

I don't like an all powerful nanny state and think people with a little common sense can understand where dangers exist and be sensible. Obviously, this example proves there are a lot of ignorant self-centred people who will forsake other people's safety for their own convenience and perhaps my faith in human nature is too great.