Marple Hall School

[Duke Fame]

The structure of teacher's pay needs to be linked to performance.

Duke, I don't disagree with you, but I'm interested in your views as to how this would be measured?

I see the difficulty, O'level results at the most basic level. Measuring improvement against a child's potential at another basic level. The problem being is that targets are open to manipulation. 

[Dave]

One of my teacher mates complains bitterly that some teacher colleagues get an automatic pay rise along with him yet are not performing very well. The structure of teacher's pay needs to be linked to performance.

Teachers' pay scales are quite complex nowadays.  As I understand it, there is a basic scale which has six points, and annual progression through these is more or less automatic, which is what Duke's teacher mate is referring to, I guess.  However, progression beyond the top of that scale is performance related - there's a upper scale, and some teachers can also be promoted to be 'Advanced Skills Teachers', which I believe means they do some coaching/ mentoring of other teachers as well. 

Maybe Duke's teacher mate or someone else can tell us how schools assess the performance of teachers on the upper scales?  I worked in colleges before I retired, and there lecturers were observed in classes by the principal or a head of department, but obviously any half-way competent teacher can produce one decent lesson if they have to - what really counts is the ability to be consistently inspiring day after day! 

Maybe schools could set targets to individual teachers for exam passes, but if they did I'm not sure I would place too much reliance on the outcome.  Targets are notoriously open to being fiddled, and can also produce unintended consequences.   

[heather]

couldn't agree more with you Dave the most important thing you can give your children is time they will remember if you sat and read with them and did other things  much more then what you bought them

[marveld]

The structure of teacher's pay needs to be linked to performance.

Duke, I don't disagree with you, but I'm interested in your views as to how this would be measured?

[Duke Fame]

surely if a teacher isn't any good, the school should be getting rid?

And in the worst cases, that's exactly what happens.  Mrs Dave was a governor at MHS for some years, and on several occasions served on small panels convened to deal with staff disciplinary and capability issues. 

In the worst cases? Isn't that the problem? One of my teacher mates complains bitterly that some teacher colleagues get an automatic pay rise along with him yet are not performing very well. The structure of teacher's pay needs to be linked to performance.

I was very surprised to learn that secondary school teachers are on the same pay scale as infant & junior teachers which can't be right. We're inundated with junior & infant teachers and still struggle with seniors, it's obvious why.

That said, I completely agree with you Dave, it's all about parental involvement.

[Dave]

surely if a teacher isn't any good, the school should be getting rid?

And in the worst cases, that's exactly what happens.  Mrs Dave was a governor at MHS for some years, and on several occasions served on small panels convened to deal with staff disciplinary and capability issues.

Pardon me, but what's the point of the school if they aren't "adding any value", to use that awful phrase?

You are pardoned, Bowden Guy.   

There's a huge amount of research out there on child development, and one thing stands out: success at school and later in life is largely determined before kids ever set foot in a school.   Teachers can add value, but that's small beer compared with the 'value' that is put there by good parenting in the early years. 

[Miss C]

I agree with Duke- our kids are at school for only 6 hours. It's my responsibility as a parent to support my child through school and to support my child's school in it's work with him. My experience of Marple Hall is that it has high expectations of the students and supports and encourages them.

[Bowden Guy]

Absolutely not, Miss C. I just believe we should have very high expectations of our public services. We pay a lot of money for them.

[Duke Fame]

Duke, we are already "shelling out cash" for our children to attend our local school. Marple Hall gets £4461 for every one of its pupils, paid for by you, me and everyone else who contributes to this Forum - i.e. the taxpayers.

I know, what I'm saying is kids can be bright from whatever their background but if parents haven't supported them before school & at school they don't have a hope. Thats why you can't blame the school entirely if things don't go well.

What I'm saying re splashing the cash is that parents who send their offspring to private school are really just buying a great peer group for their kids.

[Miss C]

Which surely you don't begrudge, Bowden Guy?

[Bowden Guy]

Duke, we are already "shelling out cash" for our children to attend our local school. Marple Hall gets £4461 for every one of its pupils, paid for by you, me and everyone else who contributes to this Forum - i.e. the taxpayers.

[Duke Fame]

"if the child wants to do well and succeed, they will"

Pardon me, but what's the point of the school if they aren't "adding any value", to use that awful phrase?

I think it depends on the parents. Schools are not places for parents to absolve themselves from responsibility in teaching their kids. From a sports perspective, a lad is unlikely to reach his potential from a PE lesson 2x a week and a game against another school in the short window where there is enough light after school and before the tennis season kicks in. The same applies to acedemic skills, the kids need encouraging throughout their home life.

The reality of life is that school performance is a function of teachers, parents and sociology. Parents that send their kids to private school don't really pay for better teachers but by shelling out cash, there is a good chance that their home life will be dominated by performing well as well as the other kids in the classs.

[Bowden Guy]

"if the child wants to do well and succeed, they will"

Pardon me, but what's the point of the school if they aren't "adding any value", to use that awful phrase?

[gazwhite]

I attended the school until 1999. 

MHS is a fantastic school with some excellent achievements and fantastic staff, management team and governers. 

Marple/Bridge/Romiley/Offerton is a strange area in that it has a mix from each of the far ends of the social spectrum or demographic classification.  From what I've seen/personal experience, this vast mix brings with it some serious social problems - from either ends of the scale! 

These appear to be dealt with well by the school.  Knowing a number of people who attend, and a govenor at the school, if the child wants to do well and succeed, they will - support must come from home too I guess!

The big question I'd ask is if it intends to become an academy? (does it? - I haven't heard any more recently)

[Duke Fame]

It is a big school so, on the law of averages, you will get some good teachers and some bad. My two children have been very happy there and have done well academically and in "after-school" activities..... I'm happy with how it educated my children.

In our case it was three children - but otherwise this was exactly our experience too.  As at any school, the quality of teaching you get is down to pot luck, really! 

That's a little depressing, surely if a teacher isn't any good, the school should be getting rid? I know they've got very strong unions but letting teachers know early in their career's that teaching isn't really for them would be fairer for everyone.