Impact on Marple of the College Closing

[amazon]

Reported in Stockport express today the sainsburys have pulled out of building ther new store on port wood
As being to expensive also travel lodge not now building near the station 'surprised about sainsburys but not travel lodge .

Er, what's this got to do with the impact on Marple of the college closing? 

Nothing just thought I'd mention it .

[Dave]

Reported in Stockport express today the sainsburys have pulled out of building ther new store on port wood
As being to expensive also travel lodge not now building near the station 'surprised about sainsburys but not travel lodge .

Er, what's this got to do with the impact on Marple of the college closing? 

[Dave]

I was referring (as you possibly know) to the ability to teach / learn.

Yes, I'm aware of that.  But you can't provide teaching and learning if you've gone bust.  And eventually that is what will happen if he college does nothing about its buildings.   

I agree that the college must anticipate it's income and budget accordingly but the ability to attract students has very little to do with the buildings,

I may have mentioned before that I have had experience of managing a college.  When we moved from poor quality converted buildings to new purpose built ones, the number of applicants increased considerably.  We also found it much easier to attract the best teaching staff - people don't like working in grotty conditions.   

[Duke Fame]

The core of Dave's argument is the buildings at Hibbert la are inefficient as they are old and not conducive for learning. It doesn't seem to hinder Oxford or Cambridge!

The problem with such an epic topic as this is that the same old arguments keep coming round over and over again.     Here's a reminder of what I posted last time Duke came up with this one:

The colleges of Oxford and Cambridge are some of the wealthiest organisations in the UK.  Trinity College Cambridge alone has a financial endowment of £700 million.  It owns the port of Felixstowe, Cambridge Science Park, and part of the O2 Arena.   Like many other Oxbridge colleges it occupies Grade 1 listed buldings of enormous historical and architectural importance.  And it has more than enough money to maintain them in the manner to which they have become accustomed over the centuries.

Oxbridge colleges were constructed for the purpose for which they are still used - they are not conversions.  They have cellars full of good port and fine wines.  Liveried flunkies wait on dons and students hand and foot.   It's a totally different world from a local sixth form college.  So can we please move on from this pointless comparison now? 

I was referring (as you possibly know) to the ability to teach / learn.

I agree that the college must anticipate it's income and budget accordingly but the ability to attract students has very little to do with the buildings, it's the ability to improve the kids, get them to where they want to go. If the college is better at doing this, they will not see dwindling numbers of students.

The college is rarely open late (Wednesdays only?) it seems there is inefficient use of hte buildings rather than inefficient buildings.

[amazon]

I suspect that what the rover describes won't have a huge impact on camsfc.  Nationally, 87% of 17 year-old are already staying on in education or training (see http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/f/facts%20for%20las%20-%20jan%202012.pdf)  and round here I suspect the figure may be even higher.  And it doesn't mean everyone aged 17 has to attend school or college - 'training' also include apprenticeships, and part-time training if someone has a full-time job.  So it's probably not a major issue.

Reported in Stockport express today the sainsburys have pulled out of building ther new store on port wood
As being to expensive also travel lodge not now building near the station 'surprised about sainsburys but not travel lodge .

[wheels]

Found out yesterday that all children will have to continue in some form of further education until they are either 17 years old or 18 years old, this comes into effect in 2013 & 2015. See the 'Stockport Review'. If the college cannot cope with all of the additional students then what will they do? Not all 16-18 year olds will be able to afford to pay to travel out of Marple for this further education. There is further information on the SMBC website.
Marple Hall School would not be able to cope with keeping pupils until they are 18 years old unless a huge amount of money was made available to build additional classrooms, employ additional teachers etc etc.

Thid is addressing the NEETs really and will have virtually no impact on Marple

[Dave]

I suspect that what the rover describes won't have a huge impact on camsfc.  Nationally, 87% of 17 year-old are already staying on in education or training (see http://media.education.gov.uk/assets/files/pdf/f/facts%20for%20las%20-%20jan%202012.pdf)  and round here I suspect the figure may be even higher.  And it doesn't mean everyone aged 17 has to attend school or college - 'training' also include apprenticeships, and part-time training if someone has a full-time job.  So it's probably not a major issue.

[the rover]

Found out yesterday that all children will have to continue in some form of further education until they are either 17 years old or 18 years old, this comes into effect in 2013 & 2015. See the 'Stockport Review'. If the college cannot cope with all of the additional students then what will they do? Not all 16-18 year olds will be able to afford to pay to travel out of Marple for this further education. There is further information on the SMBC website.
Marple Hall School would not be able to cope with keeping pupils until they are 18 years old unless a huge amount of money was made available to build additional classrooms, employ additional teachers etc etc.

[Dave]

The core of Dave's argument is the buildings at Hibbert la are inefficient as they are old and not conducive for learning. It doesn't seem to hinder Oxford or Cambridge!

The problem with such an epic topic as this is that the same old arguments keep coming round over and over again.     Here's a reminder of what I posted last time Duke came up with this one:

The colleges of Oxford and Cambridge are some of the wealthiest organisations in the UK.  Trinity College Cambridge alone has a financial endowment of £700 million.  It owns the port of Felixstowe, Cambridge Science Park, and part of the O2 Arena.   Like many other Oxbridge colleges it occupies Grade 1 listed buldings of enormous historical and architectural importance.  And it has more than enough money to maintain them in the manner to which they have become accustomed over the centuries.

Oxbridge colleges were constructed for the purpose for which they are still used - they are not conversions.  They have cellars full of good port and fine wines.  Liveried flunkies wait on dons and students hand and foot.   It's a totally different world from a local sixth form college.  So can we please move on from this pointless comparison now? 

[Tricky]

It doesn't seem to hinder Oxford or Cambridge!

Oh dear..

[Duke Fame]

your scenario assumes the college cannot continue as it is. Surely this isn't the case and if so, it's not down to a marginally higher heating bill.

Sorry Duke but I don't understand the post, when did the heating bill get mentioned!

The core of Dave's argument is the buildings at Hibbert la are inefficient as they are old and not conducive for learning.

It doesn't seem to hinder Oxford or Cambridge!

[Dave]

your scenario assumes the college cannot continue as it is.

Indeed.  How long do you think it could continue as it is, Duke?  Ten years? Yes.  Twenty years? Possibly.   Thirty years? Forget it, with running costs continuously creeping up and applications falling as students (and the best teaching staff) are attracted to other colleges with better facilities. Think of it like any business (which is in effect what colleges are nowadays, except that they are not for profit).    Increasing costs and declining income - no competent management would allow such a situation to occur. 

[Victor M]

your scenario assumes the college cannot continue as it is. Surely this isn't the case and if so, it's not down to a marginally higher heating bill.

Sorry Duke but I don't understand the post, when did the heating bill get mentioned!

[Duke Fame]

your scenario assumes the college cannot continue as it is. Surely this isn't the case and if so, it's not down to a marginally higher heating bill.

[Dave]

if CAMSFC closed then Marple Hall school (MHS) would probably open up a 6th Form. They would probably need to go for Academy status as that is the only way you can get funding for expansion these days. 6th Forms have already been established at New Mills & Poynton and very soon at Hazel Grove.

Well, New Mills and Poynton are in Derbyshire and East Cheshire respectively, where school sixth forms are the system, as opposed to 6th form colleges as in Stockport.  So at those schools, the sixth forms have always been there.  Hazel Grove High School has recently converted to an Academy, so they could develop a sixth form if they wanted to, and if they can get the capital funding.  And the same would apply to Marple Hall, if they decided to convert - which as yet they have not.

I used to be pessimistic about the prospects for MHS to raise sufficient capital to accommodate enough sixth formers to replace camsfc, but it occurs to me that it might just be possible after all, if (and it's a big if) agreement could be reached between the EFA, camsfc governors, and the governors/trustees of a new MHS Academy.  Crucial to this is the fact that the EFA is the funding body for both sixth-form colleges and Academies.  I can see two possible scenarios (but others may see more):

1.  Camsfc would sell off both the Hibbert Lane and Buxton Lane sites, and consolidate all of its operation at Cheadle.  Some or all of the receipts for the disposal of the two Marple sites would revert to the EFA, who would use them to fund (or part-fund) a newly built sixth form facility at MHS Academy.  Or....
2.  MHS Academy would take over camsfc's Marple operation as it stands, and then gradually develop it, perhaps by selling off one or both of the college's Marple sites, and using the receipts to build a sixth-form facility on the current MHS campus.

Simple isn't it....... But it would have to be brokered by the EFA, and it would depend on the willingness of the camsfc governors to give up some assets, so don't hold your breath!