Chadwick Street / Trinity Street Development Announced

[Dave]

If there was a site in the town centre that could accommodate the store then Asda would use it. The only possibility in the town centre – the car park at Chadwick Street – is simply too small, and can’t be used by Asda...... Chadwick Street isn't an alternative for Asda because it isn't big enough, not enough spaces etc.

Just because Asda regard Chadwick Street as too small, it doesn't necessarily mean that the planners will take the same view.   Both schemes provide an identical 25,000 sq.ft sales area.  So as long as Kirkland maintain that they can find a tenant who wants to run the same size supermarket on their town centre site, then the danger is that SMBC will regard that as a good enough reason to turn down an edge-of-centre application, even though there may not be sufficient car parking spaces at Chadwick Street. 

[wheels]

Wheels,

After some prevarication it has now been decided that both applications will be going to H & P. Therefore local Councillors will not need to "bottle it" or otherwise. The decision has been taken away from them. It's probably something that has been orchestrated by Marple 6 so that they can say whatever they like and still keep face. The way things have changed throughout, it could revert back who knows? Maybe you, Dave and I will ultimately be asked to make the decision in the Navigation bar.  

If orchestrated by the 6 it's much the same as bottling it, avoiding having to make a decision. Keeping clean hands so thay can face both ways.

[JMC]

'Planning guidelines require that sites in town centres are given priority, with sites on the edge of centres (which is defined as being within 300m) being the next choice. If there was a site in the town centre that could accommodate the store then Asda would use it. The only possibility in the town centre – the car park at Chadwick Street – is simply too small, and can’t be used by Asda. So, using a site within 300m of the centre is wholly in accordance with the guidelines and planning policy.'
(http://www.marplecollegeandasda.co.uk/#/)

Asda claim that the site meets planing policy because there is no suitable site in the centre. As it is within 300m it is classed as edge of centre and not out of town. So I don't see how they can just refuse it simply as it isn't within the actual centre. Marple town actually spreads quite a long way than just Market Street part. Chadwick Street isn't an alternative for Asda because it isn't big enough, not enough spaces etc. Hibbert Lane is perfect for Asda. I am pretty certain Asda will appeal it if it is turned down. What worries me is that we could end up with more Co-ops if they go for the Kirkland site to stop competition.

[simonesaffron]

Wheels,

After some prevarication it has now been decided that both applications will be going to H & P. Therefore local Councillors will not need to "bottle it" or otherwise. The decision has been taken away from them. It's probably something that has been orchestrated by Marple 6 so that they can say whatever they like and still keep face. The way things have changed throughout, it could revert back who knows? Maybe you, Dave and I will ultimately be asked to make the decision in the Navigation bar.     

     

[Dave]

I too go along with Simone's summary, but I don't quite follow this bit: 

Only ASDA can stop Kirkland and only Kirkland can stop ASDA.

It's obvious that the Kirkland development could scupper the Asda/camsfc scheme, simply because the latter, on its 'edge of centre' site, will presumably only get planning consent if it can be shown that Marple needs a proper supermarket and that there is no prospect of providing one within the centre.   As long as the Trinity Street/Chadwick street scheme remains a possibility, that will clearly not be the case, so the camsfc/Asda application looks likely to be refused.

However, I can't see how Asda could stop Kirkland.  How would that work, Simone? 

[wheels]

Good post Simone in particular emphasising that the ASDA development is not in the town centre whilst Kirkland is and Council policy allows development within the town centre why therefore would anyone elected our local authority reps to opposes their own policy. I still expect the Marple 6 to bottle it at area committe and send the Kirkland application to the Planning Committee thereby  removing the decision from their hands.

Your MP of course is totally irrelevant in this matter he has no say and is not part of the decision making process.

[simonesaffron]

The location of the supermarket in Hibbert Lane contravenes Council planning policy. If my recall is accurate,this was also stated by the MP in the 'Gridlock' leaflet that you refer to. In addition to which I believe that comment was made by only one Councillor (SA) and she will simply say that the Marple Supermarket issue has changed out of all recognition, since she made that comment - which of course it has. 

SMBC planning policy allows for the siting of a retail development in town centre. Trinity Street qualifies as being in the town centre ASDA DOES NOT. Our Local Councillors are SMBC Councillors. So naturally we would expect them to support Council policy - wouldn't we? Surely we elected them to represent us to the Council and the Council to us. So where is the argument? If there has to be supermarket in Marple and it seems that there has to be then surely the Council (this includes our Councillors as they are on it) will support its own policy. To suggest that there is some way that they will do something else is surely a futile argument.

Whilst this continues to be a two horse race between ASDA and Kirkland then the actual decision will come outside the Council and it will depend on whether ASDA choose to appeal and whether Kirkland can successfully relocate the sorting office and resolve the not unimportant issue of finding a client, neither of which they have yet managed to do. Both ASDA and Kirkland have a strong influence on each other.

The issue is nothing to do with traffic. There will be increased whatsoever the choice. Traffic will probably be worse at Trinity Street than at Hibbert Lane as all the Supermarket traffic from the High Lane/A6 will stop at Hibbert Lane and not come into Marple whereas the Trinity Street scheme will bring all the traffic into Marple Centre. Plus the ASDA car park has more spaces than Kirkland's and is therefore less likely to overflow.  However, traffic implications will not stop these schemes nor will local Councillors nor will SMBC. These schemes will only be stopped by each other. Only ASDA can stop Kirkland and only Kirkland can stop ASDA.

Currently, they are waiting for each others' next move but these moves will come be after the local planning decisions have been made, early next year. Whosoever leves town first is the loser. Arguments about traffic, although traffic it is a real issue, are just red herrings and will not stop either of these schemes.             

[alstan]

You are absolutely right, Bluezorro. Our local councillors and MP went to the trouble of producing a "News Extra" and distributing it throughout the town to promote their view that the ASDA/camsfc proposal would lead not to just increased traffic or traffic jams but to GRIDLOCK!, ie paralysis.

They have choices, either they can issue an identical statement in respect of the Kirkland proposal and throw it out, they can issue a staement explaining why the Kirkland proposal will not lead to the same, or worse, traffic problems, or they can do nothing and stand accused of cynical hypocrisy which is probably what they will settle for.

[Bluezorro]

Weighing up the pros and cons of the Chadwick Street development against Hibbert Lane, I am now of the opinion that Marple would be better off with Asda at Hibbert Lane.

The traffic chaos around Chadwick Street could actually put people off coming into marple, which would help shut some of the existing businesses.

[mikes]

According to the Marple Area Committee's web page (on 10/12/2012):

...


I can't yet find it on the planning portal. Seems a bit premature.

It's there now

[JMC]

It will be more traffic in a more concentrated area. Right in the middle of Marple.



It makes me wonder if they would be planning to re-open Queen Street to traffic..

That is a good point. Surely also there would be people parking on Lyme grove and Mount Drive.

[Tricky]

It will be more traffic in a more concentrated area. Right in the middle of Marple.



It makes me wonder if they would be planning to re-open Queen Street to traffic..

Not Queen street.. I meant Church Street.

[hollins]

According to the Marple Area Committee's web page (on 10/12/2012):

Update 10 December 2012

Chadwick Street Car Park site -   A planning application for the Demolition of existing structure and erection of Class A1 foodstore and flexible use unit with associated public realm and highway works, vehicular access, car parking, servicing area and hard and soft landscaping on land bounded by Trinity Street/Chadwick Street, Marple has been received by the Council and is now valid.  The proposal is being sent out for consultation and is available for viewing at Marple Library and on the Councils website
http://www.stockport.gov.uk/services/environment/planningbuilding/planning


I can't yet find it on the planning portal. Seems a bit premature.

[Chris78]

Planning application fees went up by 15% on 22/11/12 which is may be why it was seen as the "wrong fee".

[Dave]

Asda price - nice one :-) However, I can assure Simone that the college will not have let Asda get in any way involved in the design and costing of their own construction project.