Chadwick Street / Trinity Street Development Announced

[wheels]

As usual, Simone writes good sense. Her faith in the ability/willingness if our councillors to help the college is touching but, I fear, misplaced.

I think you are both wrong the Marple 6 are generally weak and ineffective and are not well regarded within the controlling group. However I do have  total confidence that the controlling Lib Dem group will resolve the issue for the benefit of Marple dispite rather than because of our weak local councillors.

Stunell of course has no role here contenting himself with frightening people and pretendig to run campaigns but come the end of the day he has no voice or vote.

[wheels]

Do they have permission to be there or do they justlike blocking the pavement

[amazon]

It is not a straight forward issue and never has been.

The College, really started it all and although it is right to want the best for their students their senior management was arrogant and disengaged itself from the Community. They believed that they had a surefire way to realise their project and didn't take into account the strength of local feeling and also the influence of local Councillors. 

It is my understanding that they were informed by SMBC, 18 months ago that they were highly unlikely to obtain planning permission but they put their faith in the power and money of ASDA and treated our elected representatives with disdain. They figured that ASDA would hire some expensive slick, sophister and he would save the day at appeal. Lets be honest ASDA couldn't care less about Marple or the students. They just see Marple and the College as a catalyst to put more profit into their business but MACSFC had no reservation about riding with the devil on this issue.
 
To compound the felony the community was further divided by the tactics and behaviour of some members of MIA and lets face it what have they actually achieved ?

If we have to have a supermarket in Marple then it is better for the future of the town centre ( although I'm apprehensive about the traffic)  if that supermarket is in the town centre. If nothing else this is compliant with our Council's policy and we voted the Council in. There has been one election since the supermarket issue and the sitting local Councillors absolutely annihilated the opposition. There is also in my view much ill-informed opinion about our local Councillors. They at least all live /work in Marple and they have a vested interest in the town -ASDA don't. Councillors at least believe they are doing what's best for Marple. ASDA couldn't care less.
 
I also believe that the College should stay in town for the sake of education and for the sake of the local economy.

I am sure that all is not lost and that a supermarket in the centre and a College refurbishment can be accommodated. The College now has to accept that barring some miracle/disaster (they can happen) the ASDA plan for Hibbert lane is all but dead.

If I was ASDA now I would be contacting Kirkland and if I was CAMSFC I would be contacting local Councillors.

Oh and if I was MIA I would be contacting nobody and would completely fade away.       

They were on the precinct again this morning looking frozen and all alone .

[Dave]

As usual, Simone writes good sense. Her faith in the ability/willingness if our councillors to help the college is touching but, I fear, misplaced.

[simonesaffron]

It is not a straight forward issue and never has been.

The College, really started it all and although it is right to want the best for their students their senior management was arrogant and disengaged itself from the Community. They believed that they had a surefire way to realise their project and didn't take into account the strength of local feeling and also the influence of local Councillors. 

It is my understanding that they were informed by SMBC, 18 months ago that they were highly unlikely to obtain planning permission but they put their faith in the power and money of ASDA and treated our elected representatives with disdain. They figured that ASDA would hire some expensive slick, sophister and he would save the day at appeal. Lets be honest ASDA couldn't care less about Marple or the students. They just see Marple and the College as a catalyst to put more profit into their business but MACSFC had no reservation about riding with the devil on this issue.
 
To compound the felony the community was further divided by the tactics and behaviour of some members of MIA and lets face it what have they actually achieved ?

If we have to have a supermarket in Marple then it is better for the future of the town centre ( although I'm apprehensive about the traffic)  if that supermarket is in the town centre. If nothing else this is compliant with our Council's policy and we voted the Council in. There has been one election since the supermarket issue and the sitting local Councillors absolutely annihilated the opposition. There is also in my view much ill-informed opinion about our local Councillors. They at least all live /work in Marple and they have a vested interest in the town -ASDA don't. Councillors at least believe they are doing what's best for Marple. ASDA couldn't care less.
 
I also believe that the College should stay in town for the sake of education and for the sake of the local economy.

I am sure that all is not lost and that a supermarket in the centre and a College refurbishment can be accommodated. The College now has to accept that barring some miracle/disaster (they can happen) the ASDA plan for Hibbert lane is all but dead.

If I was ASDA now I would be contacting Kirkland and if I was CAMSFC I would be contacting local Councillors.

Oh and if I was MIA I would be contacting nobody and would completely fade away.       

[wheels]

Yes, I think it would matter a great deal. This is a town of 23,000 people, as we frequently remind ourselves. It's not Bredbury or Romiley or New Mills - it's bigger and more important than any of those. The idea that a town of Marple's size and status should have no educational provision for 16 -18 year olds is unthinkable. Imagine what the centre would be like without the students! (Better, a few people might say!) But it would be a pretty dead place - and the shops would certainly miss them!

Ah but the economic benefits are not the same as saying that  first class educational provision can only be provided within walkig distance of marples youngsters front doors. I don't actual see that that jumpingon your bike or bus to go to college is a massive problem

[amazon]

Yes, I think it would matter a great deal. This is a town of 23,000 people, as we frequently remind ourselves. It's not Bredbury or Romiley or New Mills - it's bigger and more important than any of those. The idea that a town of Marple's size and status should have no educational provision for 16 -18 year olds is unthinkable. Imagine what the centre would be like without the students! (Better, a few people might say!) But it would be a pretty dead place - and the shops would certainly miss them!

For once I agree with you Dave 'for one thing we would be able to get on a bus between 3and 4 going either way they must be good for trade during dinner time certainly gregs would miss them .and the chippy on derby way .and if dominos opens . No keep the students good for marple .

[Dave]

Yes, I think it would matter a great deal. This is a town of 23,000 people, as we frequently remind ourselves. It's not Bredbury or Romiley or New Mills - it's bigger and more important than any of those. The idea that a town of Marple's size and status should have no educational provision for 16 -18 year olds is unthinkable. Imagine what the centre would be like without the students! (Better, a few people might say!) But it would be a pretty dead place - and the shops would certainly miss them!

[wheels]

There's just one problem with that: as far as I am aware, none of ou councillors were elected with a mandate to oppose the improvement of educational provision in Marple.

Dave why is the location of the provision so important. Are you suggesting that those people who get on the bus and go to Aquinas or Stockport College are in some way getting an inferior education. Marple Campus is used widely by people from Breadbury, Romiley. New Mills etc do they have a lesser experience because they have to travel. Thus would it really matter if people had to travel to Cheadle or whereever?

[amazon]

There's just one problem with that: as far as I am aware, none of ou councillors were elected with a mandate to oppose the improvement of educational provision in Marple.

Dave, I wish you'd stop using this simplistic argument. It's the equivalent of "if you're not with us then you're against us" or "if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem". I seem to remember GW Bush using it in the early days of his "War on Terror" and how that turned people off from valid points that the US might actually have made.

Just because the councillors oppose the development of Asda on Hibbert Lane does not necessarily mean they "oppose the improvement of educational provision in Marple". Of course they'd be in favour as it would be suicidal for their election chances to say anything otherwise. But they weren't elected on that single issue (and in fact only two of the current six councillors have been re-elected since the supermarket issue became public knowledge).

Some people take the view that Asda's arrival will damage local businesses (and I'm not really bought into that argument). If the councillors stood on the issue that they "fully support all measures to improve the provision of educaltion in Marple" the argument could be turned right around and they could be accused of having a mandate to oppose all development of local businesses.

You know that the argument is much more shaded than one opposes or supports education and your black and white argument diminishes some of the excellent points you have made.

Good post Howard .

[Maria]

Howard. Dave is far from simplistic. He is knowledgeable, coherent and well able to hit the nail on the head but if you wish it to be put in different terms lets just say that the opposition of our councillors (and MP) to the development of a modest supermarket at Hibbert Lane is detrimental to the prospects of further education in Marple for our children and grandchildren.

I have to say I disagree it is detrimental.  It is by far the easiest option for the college but I do not feel realistically the students will suffer.  Ms Cassidy herself confirmed other options were available, just that this was the most simplistic and Mr Hubert also confirmed contingency plans are in place to allow for redevlopment of Buxton Lane if the Hibbert lane application is denied.  In reality however, our comments on this forum mean very little if anything and we will all have differing opinions-indeed I expect a few retorts to my own comment here!

[Howard]

Howard. Dave is far from simplistic. He is knowledgeable, coherent and well able to hit the nail on the head but if you wish it to be put in different terms lets just say that the opposition of our councillors (and MP) to the development of a modest supermarket at Hibbert Lane is detrimental to the prospects of further education in Marple for our children and grandchildren.

At times Dave has been the lone voice of reason amongst the many more emotional posts that have been made on this forum. However, you clearly didn't read my post properly. What I said was that using such black and white arguments diminishes some of the excellent points he has made.

[alstan]

Howard. Dave is far from simplistic. He is knowledgeable, coherent and well able to hit the nail on the head but if you wish it to be put in different terms lets just say that the opposition of our councillors (and MP) to the development of a modest supermarket at Hibbert Lane is detrimental to the prospects of further education in Marple for our children and grandchildren.

[thebigshed]

The Kirkland development is estimated to create 18 months of major upheaval right in the centre of Marple and will remove most of the town's car parking during that time. What will that do to local trade?  I suspect that visitors to Marple will think twice before coming to spend their money.  At least the Hibbert Lane option wouldn't get in the way of normal trading while it's being built.

[Howard]

There's just one problem with that: as far as I am aware, none of ou councillors were elected with a mandate to oppose the improvement of educational provision in Marple.

Dave, I wish you'd stop using this simplistic argument. It's the equivalent of "if you're not with us then you're against us" or "if you're not part of the solution then you're part of the problem". I seem to remember GW Bush using it in the early days of his "War on Terror" and how that turned people off from valid points that the US might actually have made.

Just because the councillors oppose the development of Asda on Hibbert Lane does not necessarily mean they "oppose the improvement of educational provision in Marple". Of course they'd be in favour as it would be suicidal for their election chances to say anything otherwise. But they weren't elected on that single issue (and in fact only two of the current six councillors have been re-elected since the supermarket issue became public knowledge).

Some people take the view that Asda's arrival will damage local businesses (and I'm not really bought into that argument). If the councillors stood on the issue that they "fully support all measures to improve the provision of educaltion in Marple" the argument could be turned right around and they could be accused of having a mandate to oppose all development of local businesses.

You know that the argument is much more shaded than one opposes or supports education and your black and white argument diminishes some of the excellent points you have made.