Chadwick Street / Trinity Street Development Announced

[Dave]

Yes, I do mean the appeal, because IMO there is no way Hibbert Lane will be approved by SMBC. 

I could envisage a prospective tenant being provisionally signed up by Kirkland in advance of planning, but given the conditions which would probably be attached to the planning consent, it's hard to see it being a completely done deal at that stage.  The tenant would want to be satisfied with the conditions before they signed on the dotted line. 

[wheels]

Dave I would agree with that, but you are there talking about the appeal process. Also you do agree do you, that you would not expect Kirkland to have a publicly declared partner before planning approval have been agreed.

[Dave]

There is good sense in what both Simone and wheels write, but I'd take issue with wheels on this bit:

The decision is made on planning grounds alone and the status of another application is not a factor to take into account.

AFAIK if it came to an appeal it would be based on the argument by Asda/camsfc that their edge-of-centre site passes the 'sequential test' because there is no suitable town centre site. 

If SMBC are to win that argument, and successfully make the case that there IS a suitable town centre site, then the status of the Kirkland scheme will become a critical deciding factor.  As long as Kirkland don't have a tenant, then Chadwick/Trinity Street is by definition not a suitable site, because, er, no supermarket chain deems it to be 'suitable'. 

[wheels]

But Simone that's not how it works, you would not expect Kirkland to have a developer on board until they have planning permission that's the normal process. No partner will sign up or show themselves until that hurdle has been achieve. We don't know nor have we any right to know if Kirkland have someone they are speaking to who will declare after the application is approved.

Nothing whatsoever has changed other than in folks heads nor is the status of one let us say Kirkland a planning issue to take into account when considering the other. The decision is made on planning grounds alone and the status of another application is not a factor to take into account.

Currently Kirklands application must be seen as the front runner as it is the only one of the two that meets planning guidelines end of.

[simonesaffron]

As Victor has pointed out several times there is either going to be a supermarket on Hibbert Lane or one on Trinity Street. It is not impossible that it could be another co-op that would be up to the co-op. Can't see it myself but it's not impossible.

The Trinity Street project will have to be more advanced than it is now to stop CAMSFC/ASDA. At the time of writing it seems little more than a presentation from a drawing, good drawings I'll grant you but all flash and no pan.  It also appears to be rather expensive and if ASDA are to be believed the proposed car-park is woefully inadequate. If the car-park is woefully inadequate and the parking cannot accommodate the customers to support the sales area.Then either the sales area is reduced or the scheme may be deemed not viable...which again is currently a claim being made about it by ASDA. Who are saying that there is currently no client because, no client will ever be found. ASDA are also claiming the traffic management fo Trinity street won't work and that Marple will be besieged with cars. These are all allegations which Kirkland are refuting but in all their denials they still haven't come up with a client. Whilst this situation remains I cannot see how ASDA can be disbelieved - whether we want them or not. So for me there is no current evidence that Kirkland can deliver.   

ASDA on the other hand is a real scheme and looks deliverable. If/when they go to Appeal and Kirkland still haven't got a client ASDA will make this claim and they will further say that there is no alternative site.

So the balance shifts again and at the moment ASDA's case looks the stronger but Kirkland may come up with a client to-morrow.

At the moment nothing is finalised and neither site looks like a done deal although ASDA is looking more like one then Kirkland.

[wheels]

Its not how planning and local government work. I thnk you can be assured your first thoughts were correct.

[JMC]

If the Kirkland scheme is purely an attempt to stop Asda Hibbert Lane, could the whole thing be a smokescreen? In other words could it be possible there is no real intention to build a foodstore on Chadwick Street? Is there any possibility we could get another Coop?

Do you really think Kirkland would spend the time and money they have just to help the Council defeat ASDA I think not.

That (your response) was my first thought but I really don't know.

[wheels]

If the Kirkland scheme is purely an attempt to stop Asda Hibbert Lane, could the whole thing be a smokescreen? In other words could it be possible there is no real intention to build a foodstore on Chadwick Street? Is there any possibility we could get another Coop?

Do you really think Kirkland would spend the time and money they have just to help the Council defeat ASDA I think not.

[Dave]

The Chadwick St. development is just as much a done deal as the ASDA one.

i.e. not at all - indeed so!  But if Kirkland can get a supermarket chain signed up and irreversibly committed to going ahead, that would almost certainly scupper Hibbert Lane. 

[Victor M]

I don't see the Chadwick Street development putting a stop to Hibbert Lane unless it becomes a done deal.

As previously stated the choice is either a Supermarket on Hibbert Lane or one on Chadwick St. there will be one or the other. The Chadwick St. development is just as much a done deal as the ASDA one.

[JMC]

Thanks Dave. I hope you are right.

[Dave]

I don't see the Chadwick Street development putting a stop to Hibbert Lane unless it becomes a done deal.   The mere existence of a proposal for Chadwick Street would not be enough, because Asda/camsfc would argue at their planning appeal that Chadwick Street won't actually happen, for the sort of reasons (cost, insufficient car parking etc) that have already been pointed out on this forum. 

[JMC]

If the Kirkland scheme is purely an attempt to stop Asda Hibbert Lane, could the whole thing be a smokescreen? In other words could it be possible there is no real intention to build a foodstore on Chadwick Street? Is there any possibility we could get another Coop?

[simonesaffron]

Stop it now Dave, you know that Wheels sometimes makes things up.

[Dave]

Ah, I see.  So you just happened to be walking past the Town Hall when through an open window you heard 

Group members reading your comments have laughted out loud.