Speculation about which Supermarket it might be

[Dave]

Please tell me what these "whole heap of other factors" are ?

Here's a few for starters:

1.  Gross retail area, which obviously has a significant bearing on takings.  The Hibbert lane is likely to have more net space, and therefore a higher projected turnover.
2.  Access and construction issues.  Hibbert Lane is a level site and should be easy (and therefore cheap) to build on - plenty of space for plant and site cabins, easy access for lorries. Chadwick/Trinity Street is on a slope and is a more constricted site - less room for access, cabins, tower crane etc. Therefore likely to be a more costly build.
3.  Hibbert Lane will have a fuel forecourt, unlike Chadwick Street.  Therefore significantly more revenue.
4.  Geology/decontamination.  Chadwick Street may have an industrial past (I don't know, just guessing), which may mean decontamination costs. 

So Chadwick Street may be a more economic option for Asda than Hibbert Lane - or it may not.  Without detailed and expert analysis, we really can't know.   

Meanwhile, this is very interesting: 

ASDA have undertaken to do the College refurbishment themselves or at least with their own contractors

What's your source for that, Simone? 

[simonesaffron]

I think it's a bit confusing to refer to Asda as 'saving themselves the cost of the College refurbishment'. If the Hibbert Lane scheme goes ahead, Asda will have bought the site from the college. It will not be directly paying for the college refurbishment.

As for whether it would be cheaper ('Asda price!') for Asda to acquire Chadwick St instead, we should not assume that because the Hibbert Lane site is bigger, it will necessarily be a more expensive scheme than Chadwick Street. There's a whole heap of other factors in that financial equation.

When I refer to the cost of the refurbishment I don't just mean the land price although that is critical. ASDA have undertaken to do the College refurbishment themselves or at least with their own contractors so there is a management/cost implication. In addition to this they (ASDA) have clearly stated that they will not start work on the Store until the College is finished. This delay will represent a loss in revenue whereas Trinity Street could be developed immediately. This bit is guesswork but with this in mind Trinity Street could be open  and trading 12/18months before Hibbert Lane. I don't know what revenues are expected from either of these new stores but Marple co-op has an annual gross turnover of £13m - even proportionally ASDA stand to lose a lot of money over a 12/18 month wait.     

Please tell me what these "whole heap of other factors" are ?

[Dave]

I think it's a bit confusing to refer to Asda as 'saving themselves the cost of the College refurbishment'. If the Hibbert Lane scheme goes ahead, Asda will have bought the site from the college. It will not be directly paying for the college refurbishment.

As for whether it would be cheaper ('Asda price!') for Asda to acquire Chadwick St instead, we should not assume that because the Hibbert Lane site is bigger, it will necessarily be a more expensive scheme than Chadwick Street. There's a whole heap of other factors in that financial equation.

[simonesaffron]

Trinity Street versus ASDA, it is an interesting situation.

ASDA is cut and dried apart from the small matter of the planning permission.

Kirkland, now that's going to be a difficult site to deliver. Firstly there is the issue of the relocation of the Sorting Office. My information is that they won't go unless the Council find them another suitable site in Marple - and up to now they haven't been able to do that. In addition to that Kirkland won't have a client. No client in their right mind would sign up until the ASDA situation has been resolved and that would include an appeal and no developer would seek a client until they can deliver the site. If we had three supermarkets in town; Co-op, ASDA and another, then they would all lose money.

As for planning permission, also complicated. Trinity Street is local Councillor driven they all want a supermarket in the centre. So it is likely that the Local Councillors will support Kirkland and deny ASDA but is that where it rests? Highways and Planning Committee may have last say and they are politicians. The way that I see it a lot of political damage can be done to the Lib Dems, both locally and throughout Stockport if ASDA comes to Hibbert Lane. Councillors are nothing else if not petulant and they love political point scoring even those in the same party hold grudges against others.

The success of each scheme now depends upon the other's failure, in addition to this who is to say that ASDA won't abandon CAMSFC and become Kirkland's client in a kind of plan B thus saving themselves the cost of the College refurbishment and still gaining the presence that they want in Marple.   

Interesting eh ?   

[amazon]

Hi Cyberman. I am a bit puzzled and wonder if I have missed something. I had assumed that cars would access Chadwick Street along Hibbert Lane and Church Lane, is there likely to be another route?

I was forgetting, it wasn't just gridlock was it, there was also light pollution, air pollution, crime, noise, deliveries, especially going beep, beep, beep in reverse, our houses burning down because the volunteer emergency services can't get through the traffic, in fact just about everything that has ever been afflicted on mankind!

Why don't we close Marple down then it will be the nice sleepy village some of you seem to want .

Yes some of them seem to believe our industrial town is a village. Mind you a village needs a village shop.

Coarse it does a nice village ASDA .

[wheels]

Hi Cyberman. I am a bit puzzled and wonder if I have missed something. I had assumed that cars would access Chadwick Street along Hibbert Lane and Church Lane, is there likely to be another route?

I was forgetting, it wasn't just gridlock was it, there was also light pollution, air pollution, crime, noise, deliveries, especially going beep, beep, beep in reverse, our houses burning down because the volunteer emergency services can't get through the traffic, in fact just about everything that has ever been afflicted on mankind!

Why don't we close Marple down then it will be the nice sleepy village some of you seem to want .

Yes some of them seem to believe our industrial town is a village. Mind you a village needs a village shop.

[amazon]

Hi Cyberman. I am a bit puzzled and wonder if I have missed something. I had assumed that cars would access Chadwick Street along Hibbert Lane and Church Lane, is there likely to be another route?

I was forgetting, it wasn't just gridlock was it, there was also light pollution, air pollution, crime, noise, deliveries, especially going beep, beep, beep in reverse, our houses burning down because the volunteer emergency services can't get through the traffic, in fact just about everything that has ever been afflicted on mankind!

Why don't we close Marple down then it will be the nice sleepy village some of you seem to want .

[amazon]

Everybody seems to rave about Booths where is their nearest shop? I have never seen one so I will have to have a look.

Attract more people to Marple? I thought that was something we desperately needed to avoid. What has happened to the gridlock that we were going to be engulfed in?

If ASDA don't come you won't attract people to marple they will go out of town to do there supermarket shop

[wheels]

And this is what Saga have to say about Aldi

http://www.saga.co.uk/health/weight-loss/judith-wills-diet-challenge/2012/october/5-low-cost-supermarkets-with-hidden-slimming-benefits.aspx?smagnl=432

[guy]

Back to the original topic, what might the supermarket be on Chadwick Street: It's a reasonable assumption that the developer Kirkland has already struck a deal with one of the supermarkets dependent on planning permission being granted. It could be argued that it's unlikely Kirkland would make the major investment in site surveys, liaison with council planners, architects' drawings, leaflet production/distribution, consultation/exhibition costs etc etc without financial backing from one of the supermarkets.
So what clues do we have to the likely supermarket behind the Chadwick Street plans? As noted on this forum already, Kirkland developed a supermarket in Bury or Bolton for Aldi relatively recently. The first Kirkland press release was issued for them by Lexington Communications which provides lobbying services to Tesco. The Kirkland Developments leaflet distributed to residents used the typeface and green colouring that closely matches that used by Waitrose.
I wonder which "high quality food retailer" it will be that is coming to Marple?

[alstan]

I didn't  mention fumes from the petrol station because it has not previously been mentioned on the forum, as far as I am aware. All of those mentioned are quotes from people previously expressing their fears in relation to the Hibbert Lane development.

I am not sure about Trinity Street, as has already been mentioned it is already one way and would presumably remain so and all those vehicles on Stockport Rd waiting to turn right into Trinity Street?
Anyway all will become clear next week.

[Chris78]

The Kirkland leaflet shows the rooftop car park to be taken off Trinity Street only. The back of shop lorry deliveries also seem to take access off Trinity Street in the same vicinity as the Icelands. Although the existing car park site is currently accessed off Chadwick Street this does nt appear to be the case with the new development, so really it should be known as the Trinity Street Development.

Going off the leaflet it would appear that the main access onto Trinity Street will be off Church Lane, as its only a one-way section off Stockport Road which I can't see being widened. As like any major development Kirkland / the Supermarket will have to do traffic studies and will probably have to invest in highway improvements of the surrounding roads as part of their planning application. My main concern is Church Lane (or Chirch Lane as the store at the roundabout likes to call it on their banner!  ) as that defiantly needs sorted out supermarket or not.

[Cyberman]

Hi Cyberman. I am a bit puzzled and wonder if I have missed something. I had assumed that cars would access Chadwick Street along Hibbert Lane and Church Lane, is there likely to be another route?

Well yes - straight off Stockport Rd, down Trinity St, the same way many drivers access the Chadwick St car park now. Also, folks could still use the Co-op car park which is only a short walk away.

And you forgot "fumes from the petrol station". 

[alstan]

Hi Cyberman. I am a bit puzzled and wonder if I have missed something. I had assumed that cars would access Chadwick Street along Hibbert Lane and Church Lane, is there likely to be another route?

I was forgetting, it wasn't just gridlock was it, there was also light pollution, air pollution, crime, noise, deliveries, especially going beep, beep, beep in reverse, our houses burning down because the volunteer emergency services can't get through the traffic, in fact just about everything that has ever been afflicted on mankind!

[Cyberman]

Re Gridlock - my concern (hope I'm not alone) is the extra traffic round Church Lane / Hibbert Lane and their junctions. Wouldn't be so bad if the new build was more central.

Re Booths - nearest store is probably Media City, Salford, which I use occasionaly. Also I think there's one in Knutsford. Good quality stuff, lots of luxury food items, well presented and informed staff... but expensive! Not an alternative to the Co-op for me. If they build one, perhaps we could also have a cable-car from Marple Bridge to Marple.