Those annoying 'A boards'

[Dave]

you know that Wheels sometimes makes things up.

     

[simonesaffron]

Wheels,

I am prepared to be guided to it but I am unaware of any "National Legislation" that's the reason for the disparity, there isn't any. National Government have passed the buck to local authorities. They don't want it, it's too messy. There are so many things that can find their way onto obstructing the footway. Even people can be classed as an obstruction. In the cities it would be an absolute administrative, unenforcible nightmare.       

There is a ... D.O.T. "Mobility Inclusive Guideline" which I am not absolutely sure but I think came out of the 1980 Highways Act and refers to a "2 metre minimum clearance width on the footway". I haven't got the time nor inclination to look it up and plough through it but I am almost certain that  it proactively clearly states that it cannot be enforced by law hence the description .."guideline".
 
Wheels, tell us about your "National Legislation". Where does it come from ?           

[simonesaffron]

Stockport Council are, I understand, drawing up a guide for best practice around 'A Boards'.  The Councillor representation on this is Cllr Iain Roberts (cllr.iain.roberts@stockport.gov.uk). 

Not sure if they have finished doing this as yet, but certainly were on with it a few months ago.

:-)

Gaz, that's the problem.

[gazwhite]

Stockport Council are, I understand, drawing up a guide for best practice around 'A Boards'.  The Councillor representation on this is Cllr Iain Roberts (cllr.iain.roberts@stockport.gov.uk). 

Not sure if they have finished doing this as yet, but certainly were on with it a few months ago.

:-)

[wheels]

Irrespective of any of that Simone there is now national legislation which disabled groups are pressing the council to enforce. My personal view so its clear to you is that not only are these boards potentially a danger they are in fact an eyesore in our over cluttered environment and I would like to see them got rid off.

You are quite wrong if you think that I think councillors have little power. For example the leader of Stockport Council controlling a budget of several hundred millions pounds has much more power than say a back bench MP like Stunnell.

There are however several timeserving LA members who contribute little and Marple has a fair share of such members.

[simonesaffron]

By the way Duke, private land does not give you the automatic right to erect obstacles if that's what you're "A" board is deemed to be. Is ..."wor lass's" shop in either Marple or Heatons? If it's in Marple she is safe and unless people complain in large numbers nothing will happen and it will almost certainly be ignored.   

[simonesaffron]

It is not the biggest issue for many but it has caused enduring conflict between Stockport's ruling parties.

My understanding of the core - thinking on the issue is this. Libdems in Stockport believe (you'll like this Duke) that business should be entitled to put out "A" boards to advertise, full stop. Whereas Labour, (this you won't like) believe that these boards are an obstruction/danger in the public footway that they impede drunks,wheelchair users, unobservant school kids, old people,partially - sighted, the list goes on. They would ban them entirely and prosecute offenders also full stop.

Nobody can recall where these stances originated but neither party has ever conceded one pin and this total non - compromise has resulted in no clear policy for Officers to implement.

Everytime something is actually written, it stands for a few months and then violent argument ensues once again only for it to be re-written then whilst it is being re-written it stays in Limbo. As well as this there are always different versions in circulation. IT'S A MUDDLE.

Localities also reflect political thinking, sometimes unwittingly. Take heed Wheels, I know that you don't believe local politicians have any influence but this is yet another typical example of our lives being influenced by them without us knowing it. If you're in Marple (Libdem Territory) you can put out as many of these boards as you like and in testimony of this the place is festooned with them. Any attempt to prevent you by Council Officers will be interceded by local Councillors.  Conversely If you live in the Heatons (predominantly Labour - totally come 2014) and you put an "A" board out Local Councillors will again intercede but this time to ensure you take it down. As a consequence of this any kind of attempt at regulation keeps out of the likes of Marple and concentrates on the likes of The Heatons.

As these parties come closer to parity in terms of numbers of seats this comparitively minor issue could become even more muddled. As if we haven't got enough trouble with issues that really matter.
   

[Duke Fame]

Your totally wrong Duke this issue has come up because disabled groups are are asking the Council to enforce existing legislation and are threatening to take the council to court if they don't.What would you have the Council do in that position???

Do you have a link? The traders' association I belonged to had a representative from the council visit to sell the idea and got short shrift. It was later advised that the idea would be shelved. Wor lass' shop has just had a new A board made up so it better not be true, in our case the A board is on a private bit of the pavement and not owned by the council so we wouldn't need to adhere to their requirements.

Truth is, retailers are having a hard enough time without a load of busy-bodies desperately trying to find something to moan about

[Bluezorro]

the council have to cover themselves to protect from any legal cases.

if they get sued it is our council tax money that will be used.

I think the pound shop may need to extend into the land behind them.

[wheels]

Your totally wrong Duke this issue has come up because disabled groups are are asking the Council to enforce existing legislation and are threatening to take the council to court if they don't.What would you have the Council do in that position???

[My login is Henrietta]

Wise up shopkeepers.
You need to register your boards outside shops with the council.
A disability group was going to take action against smbc if they did not act first.
Seems a shame as i always enjoyed the krypton factor assault course on derby way.

With fixed posts and seating and stalls outside shops and the greengrocer's stock all over the entrance to Derby Way I think advertising boards are the least of the problem.

There are no blanket requirements for panning permission for boards. It's generally up to the local lot and most councils tend to not bother much. However, if a complaint is made they have to address it so if you want something done about it you need to get as many people as possible to bombard the council with complaints (individual ones are better than a petition as they take up more (wo)man power). If there's no bye-law covering it in Stockport I doubt that the disability group would get anywhere with a legal challenge even if they could afford it.

[Duke Fame]

Yep the blind and partially sighted one's are a real pain walking into those A board.

Wheelsie, they can negotiate seats, trees, other people - an A board which is designed to be seen is not going to cause any great surprise.

The local council should support local business rather than doing everything they can to destroy it

[wheels]

Yep the blind and partially sighted one's are a real pain walking into those A board.

[Duke Fame]

Wise up shopkeepers.
You need to register your boards outside shops with the council.
A disability group was going to take action against smbc if they did not act first.
Seems a shame as i always enjoyed the krypton factor assault course on derby way.

I understood the council had ditched their daft plan to stick a load of bureaucracy & cost to businesses.

I think all we need is for pedestrians to watch where they are going.

[wheels]

Wise up shopkeepers.
You need to register your boards outside shops with the council.
A disability group was going to take action against smbc if they did not act first.
Seems a shame as i always enjoyed the krypton factor assault course on derby way.

Agree Bluezerro these things are a real menace someone should speak to MarpleBusiness Forum and get them to raise it with there members.