Those annoying 'A boards'

[Bowden Guy]

And when you also factor in the value of defined-benefit public sector pensions.............

[Dave]

Wow, the average public sector worker earns more than the average wage. Does that not tell us there is a problem.

Not really.  What it tells us is the the average public sector employee is better qualified, and in a job that requires higher level qualifications, than the average private sector worker.   This is well known and well documented.

The interesting thing about this is that, AFAIK, it is a relatively recent phenomenon, resulting from the widespread outsourcing of lower level jobs (street cleaning, refuse collection, dinner ladies, car home staff etc etc) from the public sector to the private, thus driving down the average wage and qualification level of private sector workers.

A more like-for-like comparison between public and private sector pay is by qualification and job level (professional, managerial, administrative, skilled, semi-skilled, unskilled etc etc).  This presents a different picture.  For example it seems that graduates are paid more in the private sector than they are  the public, but for non-graduates it's the other way round. 

[Duke Fame]

The solution appears to be to pay them a little more but to have far fewer of them.

[simonesaffron]

If we are going to be accurate she "gave up" her job as an HE Lecturer when she was "Deputy" Leader of the Council and did both jobs for many years in tandem and received incomes from both. Which gives an indication of how much time was applied to being Deputy Leader. You can't be at a meeting with council officers when you are delivering a lecture to a room full of students - that's too good a trick.

If you take the current Council Executive at least half of them have full - time jobs/businesses whilst the other half are past retirement age, one of them is over 80 years of age. I am not casting any aspersions about anybody's ability/commitment but does that seem to you like a good mix for running an organisation. Half with other full - time jobs the other half - Dad's Army. To me that does not support, commitment,energy, application, etc. etc.

I don't begrudge the Council Leader her 40 grand per year, that's my point I think she should get more, I think that all Councillors should get more. Then we might attract different types to be Councillors.

I do begrudge the CE his exhorbitant salary - it is far too much for what is expected, and there are other officers on similar pay to him. It isn't the Councillors that take the money out of the Council there's only 63 of them and like you say most of them are on less than 10k anyway. It is the Officers that take the lion's share out of Councils annd there are thousands of them - far too many on far too much money and some of them on pointless tasks that should not be any part of Council business. 

In further irony of the whole situation I was told last night that one of the Marple 6 is standing down next election, well I knew that anyway. The problem is that they can't get a Candidate to replace him. As you would expect there are not many young dynamics who have either the time or the inclination to stand for a £9000 + plus per year job. It seems that the most suitable candidate identified is an ex Councillor now 80 years of age. Well here we go again.

It seems that our National politicians get younger whilst our local one's do the opposite. The time is not far off when we'll be digging them up to stand or maybe using cardboard replicas of the one's that have retired/died.

[Duke Fame]

Well Duke I happened to notice there board as I walk along Market St at 9am on 27th and I would think that less than half your 45 business had bothered to open. Would seem they just could not be bothered serving local people.

And your point is?

1/2 of the 45 businesses in vicinity were closed and less than  1/2 of those had an A board which together amounts to a little over 3 1/2 sq mtrs in the rather large pedestrianised area of some 800 sq metres.

Remind me why you think we are paying a team of council staff an average of £28k each for 3 years to come up with a solution to what you have proved to be a non-existent problem

[wheels]

Well Duke I happened to notice there board as I walk along Market St at 9am on 27th and I would think that less than half your 45 business had bothered to open. Would seem they just could not be bothered serving local people.

[Duke Fame]

Blue Zorro now your trying sense and logic. I counted 10 of these board out on Market St on Thursday.

Well done for counting wheels, given there are 45 business premises along Market St & Derby way area, do you agree that the problems reported are not problems at all with less than  1/4 of businesses having them and on that basis, even if they were stood accross the whole pavement there would still be enough room to walk around them all as Market St is over 9m wide.

There is no problem for the council to waste it's time on and perhaps we could save a few of those £28,000 salaries

[Duke Fame]

Wheels, according to the Office for National Statistics the average annual pay for a full time public sector worker is £28,802.00. I'm sure you'll agree that's not too far off thirty grand.

I almost missed that. Wow, the average public sector worker earns more than the average wage. Does that not tell us there is a problem.

[Duke Fame]

Wheels, according to the Office for National Statistics the average annual pay for a full time public sector worker is £28,802.00. I'm sure you'll agree that's not too far off thirty grand.

I know a lot of people in the public sector and whilst I've never seen their salary slips their lifestyle suggests to me that they earn much more than that. I'm not saying that they don't earn it nor deserve it, I'm just saying that they get it. Some public sector jobs are vital I agree but some that I've seen advertised appear to be a little silly and pointless. There also appears to be a great imbalance between others. For example  the pay between Councillors and Senior Officers has great disparity. What does the leader of the Council get paid compared to the CEO and why?

Even the pay between Councillors across Council's has great disparity. You, yourself are on record as saying ..."our local Councillors are rubbish". I'm not saying they are and I know that this has been discussed before but one of the reasons we might have rubbish Councillors is - the pay. Only people who don't need the money can afford to do it and when they're doing it the money is that insignificant that they don't care if they lose it or not as it's usually a minor secondary income to them. Imagine if you approached your job with that attitude.

Just look at their age frame. They are all retired business people or pensioners, often both. Look at the Marple 6 - none of them have ever been down a coalmine and they would have never even considered being a Councillor when they were in their thirties or forties... They wait until their later years when a bit of pin money comes in handy. 

 

Further the Concil Leader is Stockport is NOT of retirement age and gave up here ful time job as a HE Lecurter in order to become council leader. She has no other income from other outside bodies. All this is information is in the public domain already.

In fairness, people who work for the council aren't expected to do anything taxing. There is no strategy to improve sales, profit etc, nobody really loses anything if anything goes wrong. It's simple stuff, they get the street lights to come on at the right time and over-complicate the are of emptying the bins - lets not pay them anything more than the average salary and save on council tax.

Pay them too much, they end up wasting years formulating an unworkable over-elaborate A-board licencing system.

[wheels]

Wheels, according to the Office for National Statistics the average annual pay for a full time public sector worker is £28,802.00. I'm sure you'll agree that's not too far off thirty grand.

I know a lot of people in the public sector and whilst I've never seen their salary slips their lifestyle suggests to me that they earn much more than that. I'm not saying that they don't earn it nor deserve it, I'm just saying that they get it. Some public sector jobs are vital I agree but some that I've seen advertised appear to be a little silly and pointless. There also appears to be a great imbalance between others. For example  the pay between Councillors and Senior Officers has great disparity. What does the leader of the Council get paid compared to the CEO and why?

Even the pay between Councillors across Council's has great disparity. You, yourself are on record as saying ..."our local Councillors are rubbish". I'm not saying they are and I know that this has been discussed before but one of the reasons we might have rubbish Councillors is - the pay. Only people who don't need the money can afford to do it and when they're doing it the money is that insignificant that they don't care if they lose it or not as it's usually a minor secondary income to them. Imagine if you approached your job with that attitude.

Just look at their age frame. They are all retired business people or pensioners, often both. Look at the Marple 6 - none of them have ever been down a coalmine and they would have never even considered being a Councillor when they were in their thirties or forties... They wait until their later years when a bit of pin money comes in handy. 

 

Further the Concil Leader is Stockport is NOT of retirement age and gave up here ful time job as a HE Lecurter in order to become council leader. She has no other income from other outside bodies. All this is information is in the public domain already.

[wheels]

Wheels, according to the Office for National Statistics the average annual pay for a full time public sector worker is £28,802.00. I'm sure you'll agree that's not too far off thirty grand.

I know a lot of people in the public sector and whilst I've never seen their salary slips their lifestyle suggests to me that they earn much more than that. I'm not saying that they don't earn it nor deserve it, I'm just saying that they get it. Some public sector jobs are vital I agree but some that I've seen advertised appear to be a little silly and pointless. There also appears to be a great imbalance between others. For example  the pay between Councillors and Senior Officers has great disparity. What does the leader of the Council get paid compared to the CEO and why?

Even the pay between Councillors across Council's has great disparity. You, yourself are on record as saying ..."our local Councillors are rubbish". I'm not saying they are and I know that this has been discussed before but one of the reasons we might have rubbish Councillors is - the pay. Only people who don't need the money can afford to do it and when they're doing it the money is that insignificant that they don't care if they lose it or not as it's usually a minor secondary income to them. Imagine if you approached your job with that attitude.

Just look at their age frame. They are all retired business people or pensioners, often both. Look at the Marple 6 - none of them have ever been down a coalmine and they would have never even considered being a Councillor when they were in their thirties or forties... They wait until their later years when a bit of pin money comes in handy. 

 

Simone, the Leader of the COuncil gets about £28k plus the basic allowance of £9k available to all members so the council leader gets gross about £38k. The CE is well over over £100k

[simonesaffron]

Belly,

 I agree it isn't completely valid, averages and comparisons rarely are and you're right there are school caretakers and local doctors both "public sector" workers. One of them wildly below 30 grand and the other wildly above it. Of course we need 'em both and many public sector workers are vital. But it isn't completely invalid either and it is the pay scales of some against others that befuddles.

Teachers, Rat Catchers, Gardeners, Museum Curators, Librarians, Nurses, School Dinner - Ladies, Refuse Collectors, Planners, Sewer Pipe Menders  - all vital roles. However there always seems to be a layer in the middle on 50/60/70 grand. And again why do Council Chief Executives get paid what they do - they don't have to put/keep bums on seats or generate business or raise revenue ? Does anybody know what the CE at smbc is on ? I don't, but it is probably around 150/170k per year. How is that arrived at ? These Chief Execs seem to have acquired massive pay leaps in the noughties when nobody was looking and they intend to keep them. What exactly do they do to justify this money and who exactly are they responsible too. We can't vote them out like a Councillor - can we ?

[Belly]

Simons just to check - are you sure that 'public sector worker' and 'local council worker' are exactly the same when comparing salaries. After all the PM is a public sector worker as are headteachers, doctors, etc.

Are you sure your comparison is completely valid?

[simonesaffron]

Wheels, according to the Office for National Statistics the average annual pay for a full time public sector worker is £28,802.00. I'm sure you'll agree that's not too far off thirty grand.

I know a lot of people in the public sector and whilst I've never seen their salary slips their lifestyle suggests to me that they earn much more than that. I'm not saying that they don't earn it nor deserve it, I'm just saying that they get it. Some public sector jobs are vital I agree but some that I've seen advertised appear to be a little silly and pointless. There also appears to be a great imbalance between others. For example  the pay between Councillors and Senior Officers has great disparity. What does the leader of the Council get paid compared to the CEO and why?

Even the pay between Councillors across Council's has great disparity. You, yourself are on record as saying ..."our local Councillors are rubbish". I'm not saying they are and I know that this has been discussed before but one of the reasons we might have rubbish Councillors is - the pay. Only people who don't need the money can afford to do it and when they're doing it the money is that insignificant that they don't care if they lose it or not as it's usually a minor secondary income to them. Imagine if you approached your job with that attitude.

Just look at their age frame. They are all retired business people or pensioners, often both. Look at the Marple 6 - none of them have ever been down a coalmine and they would have never even considered being a Councillor when they were in their thirties or forties... They wait until their later years when a bit of pin money comes in handy. 

 

[wheels]

Simone you won't find many working in local government on £30k and just so there is no confusion I work in the private sector and have never workd in local government but value what the underpaid staff there do.