Council Reports for Marple Area Committee

[Dave]

I know you don't believe me

You're right there, wheels!   

[wheels]

Dave,  as I  have said to you before, although I know you don't believe me you could well end up with the Kirkland Development and the refurbished college. Just be thankfull you have a LD controlled authority.

[Dave]

No, lets face it, an amalgam of highly qualified, highly intelligent - academics, a multi - billion dollar conglomerate, a slick band of planning consultants have all been outwitted by a dad's army of half a dozen hick, bumpkin Councillors.   

   

Simone, you make a very fair point here:

The Trinity Street site was put on the market only 2 or 3 months after CAMSFC made their plans known. It's been public knowledge almost as long as the MACSFC/ASDA scheme. It was rushed through Area Committee and Council Executive at lightening pace long before any planning applications were submitted. Yet, CAMSFC don't appear to have realised what was going on. 

....but we need to remember that the council hurriedly putting the Trinity Street site on the market is one thing, but actually getting it to the point where a full-size (25,000 sq.ft.) supermarket is built on it is quite another.  I suspect that the college and its advisors looked at what was going on and decided that given the nature of the site, construction could be complex and costly, causing the rent to be at a level which would deter any supermarket chain - and they could yet prove to have been right.  I think it was you, Simone, who wrote that we could well end up with no new supermarket in Marple........... and no new college either, of course.   

[simonesaffron]

Dave, As far as I am aware three Councillors; Bispham, Dowling & Ingham, even at this late stage have yet to pass comment, verbal or written about the CAMSFC/ASDA. So these three at least can hardly be accused of being part of a "concerted campaign".

As for the College's Planning Consultants, I can only say that they appear to have been left at the starting gate. The Trinity Street site was put on the market only 2 or 3 months after CAMSFC made their plans known. It's been public knowledge almost as long as the MACSFC/ASDA scheme. It was rushed through Area Committee and Council Executive at lightening pace long before any planning applications were submitted. Yet, CAMSFC don't appear to have realised what was going on.  What did CAMSFC/ Planning Consultants think the Council was planning to build on it a point to point racecourse. Maybe CAMSFC should ask their planning consultants for a refund.

No, lets face it, an amalgam of highly qualified, highly intelligent - academics, a multi - billion dollar conglomerate, a slick band of planning consultants have all been outwitted by a dad's army of half a dozen hick, bumpkin Councillors.   

             

[simonesaffron]

It's my understanding that our Councillors made overtures to the College before all this started

So, you are just "speculating" that these overtures took place? That's fine then. Thanks foor the clarification.

I said ..."we put speculative comments and assertions on it". As you well know I was referring generally to the Forum and not specifically to my comments about "overtures" again as you well know. This was not a "clarification" in any way. I KNOW THAT THOSE OVERTURES WERE MADE and they were ignored. Does that sound like a speculative comment to you? As I say Bowden Guy you believe what you will, that's entirely your choice but please do not attribute to me things that I HAVE NOT SAID - because that is speculation.   

[Dave]

I don't know about the meeting which Dave Goddard tried to get with the college - I suspect there may be another side to that story, but we don't know what it is.  However, I do know a bit more about this:  

It's my understanding that our Councillors made overtures to the College before all this started, then once ASDA came forth CAMSFC disengaged. Well maybe its time they re-engaged. In breaking bread with ASDA, CAMSFC have tried to do the best for CAMSFC but in they have been blinded by ASDA's dollar signs and have disregarded the community they serve.

I was told by one of the Marple councillors some time ago that they had pressed the college not to sell Hibbert Lane to a supermarket, but to sell it for housing.  This was part of a concerted campaign including the six councillors and our MP, which I seem to recall was publicised locally as asking the college to 'Think Again' about their plan.  The only problem was that the college was (and remains) legally obliged when disposing of any assets to seek and accept the best offer.  So far from being 'blinded by ASDA's dollar signs', they were simply complying with their legal obligations.  And as for 'disregarding the community they serve', why does anyone think they are doing this at all, if not for the benefit of the local community?  

As for this:  

When the College was advised by the Council that they would not get planning permission for a Hibbert Lane supermarket they put their hands over their ears.

No they didn't - at least, they only ignored the council!  They will have listened very carefully to their own property consultants, who will have told them what we have all since found out - that although the council would probably reject the initial planning application, they could very well have that rejection overturned on appeal because of the Hibbert Lane site's 'edge-of-centre' location, and the fact that, at the time, there was no suitable and available site for a supermarket in the town centre.  

However, one thing we can agree on 100%, Simone:

These people are professional Teachers they should be at ease presenting to rooms full of people but they have never once come out and explained their case to the community.

It's largely the college's own fault that the local community sees this as a 'supermarket issue' and not an 'education issue, as the college has completely failed to make their case to the local community, and get people on their side.  The nearest they got was at the pre-planning exhibitions last autumn, but by then it was far too late.  

[Bowden Guy]

It's my understanding that our Councillors made overtures to the College before all this started

So, you are just "speculating" that these overtures took place? That's fine then. Thanks foor the clarification.

[simonesaffron]

Simone, if you have any evidence to support the notion that the "Marple 6" and/or Stockport Council have/had any capital funding to support the development of facilities at the College I would be interested in hearing it. Otherwise, what was the nature of these "overtures" that the College allegedly turned down?

What evidence would you like Bowden Guy a photograph of them all together, a written transcript of the meeting, I don't have either  ? It isn't my job to provide evidence. This is a chatroom website not a Court of Law. We put speculative comments and assertions on it. You choose whether you want to believe or not, that is entirely up to you. By the way I didn't mention the words ..."capital"...nor..."funding"  you wrote that - not me.

What I am saying is that since all this stuff started with CAMSFC and ASDA the College has steadfastly refused to engage with the Council. When the College was advised by the Council that they would not get planning permission for a Hibbert Lane supermarket they put their hands over their ears. Now what's inevitably going to happen, surprise,surprise - they won't get planning permission from the Council for a Hbbert Lane Supermarket - so they can hardly complain can they ?  But they will won't they ? They'll appeal which will cost The Council (us) a lot of money to defend. The way things are looking now they still won't get planning permission.

In Autumn, 2011 (I am not sure of the exact date) The then leader of the Council, Dave Goddard stood up at a meeting in front of 200 people and said that he had been trying to arrange a meeting with the College management but they wouldn't agree to one - I'm not sure of his exact words but that meeting was recorded and I believe that recording is on the internet. That particular meeting was actually at the College and the College didn't even represent itself. It's my understanding (there's that phrase again) The Council has invited the College for talks and representation countless times but the College has deferred all the time to ASDA.

These people are professional Teachers they should be at ease presenting to rooms full of people but they have never once come out and explained their case to the community.

They could still come to the next AC when ASDA's planning application is due to be heard and explain their position - but do you think that they will ?

If that's not evidence of lack of engagement.           

[Bowden Guy]

Simone, if you have any evidence to support the notion that the "Marple 6" and/or Stockport Council have/had any capital funding to support the development of facilities at the College I would be interested in hearing it. Otherwise, what was the nature of these "overtures" that the College allegedly turned down?

[simonesaffron]

Dave, what I actually said was..." So it would seem last night anyway Councillors were representing the views of the people". You missed the italics out in your representation.

Despite your slight misrepresentation (which I readily forgive) you make some good points. Apparently there were 200 plus people in the hall at the AC and all seemed in support of Trinity St which must mean that they are opposed to ASDA. ASDA wasn't discussed at all so we don't know the full extent of any objections, but it will be discussed at the next AC. We know that there are no objections to Trinity Street from anywhere. There wasn't even one from the Royal Mail and they are being "evicted".

We know that there have been objections to the  ASDA scheme from all quarters. The Marple Civic Society, Marple Buiness Forum, MIA, general public, The MP, lets not forget the Councillors - all 6 of em and lets not forget the Planning Officers. So are they all wrong ?

Councillors cannot represent the silent majority by definition.

Once a supermarket is on Trinity Street that's it you can't get anything else on it. You can on Hibbert Lane. Once the ASDA is built, you could have a Kentucky fried Chicken, a Halfords, a B&Q, Curry's  and you'd still have space. Councillors will have surely thought of this.

Nobody wants the College to leave town not even MIA. Everybody wants it to have the best facilities it can afford. It's my understanding that our Councillors made overtures to the College before all this started, then once ASDA came forth CAMSFC disengaged. Well maybe its time they re-engaged. In breaking bread with ASDA, CAMSFC have tried to do the best for CAMSFC but in they have been blinded by ASDA's dollar signs and have disregarded the community they serve.       

 

[Howard]

Several snarky or off topic posts have been removed from this thread. If you have issues with the way people write posts and feel the need to advise them of such, then please send a PM and keep your discussions private.

[Dave]

The Councillors I am sure are only doing what they believe is best for Marple and they don't think that putting a Supermarket on Hibbert Lane is.

That's a very telling sentence, Simone, because it sums up the way this issue is (wrongly, in my view) seen by many people, and, as you say, by our councillors.  In other words, people see it as being primarily about a supermarket, and not about education.  But what is more important - education or supermarkets?  It's astonishing that anyone should even be asking the question..... 

Now I understand why some people may be unaware of, or choose to disregard, the long-term educational benefits of the college scheme, but surely it's not unreasonable to expect those who have been elected to public office to be able to see the big picture, and to have the imagination and foresight not just to look at an issue in terms of the 'here and now', but also in terms of its future impact.  In the case of educational provision in Marple, we are probably talking about the next half-century at least - after all, the present camsfc buildings go back as much as 80 years! 

Simone also writes:

Councillors were representing the views of the people of Marple - which is exactly what they are supposed to do.

Well, they were reflecting what THEY believe are 'the views of the people of Marple'.  But actually, all we know for sure is that they are the views of a noisy minority.  No-one has ever tried to discover what the silent majority think.   But I know what I would think if I were a student at camsfc in 20 years time, and still studying in a converted 100-year-old secondary modern school.  I would think my parents and grandparents generation had let me down badly.   

[amazon]

Amazon, which bit don't you agree with exactly ?

The people in the hall don't want a supermarket .so you asked every one if they don't want a supermarket .ist better to not have the college upgraded . Can't understand the way people think on this .
They want one on trinity street but not at the ridge .

[simonesaffron]

Amazon, which bit don't you agree with exactly ?

[amazon]

Wheels has a point Dave. The Councillors I am sure are only doing what they believe is best for Marple and they don't think that putting a Supermarket on Hibbert Lane is.

I'm no fan of politicians national or local. With few exceptions they all have self -seeking agendas and I know it sounds childish but why do they all seem to be SLY. It must be something to do with the political intrigue that they become involved with. I've never been able to work it out but even if they don't start off SLY they very quickly assume it.  However, I wasn't at the meeting last night but I've had reports and by all accounts the majority of the people in that hall were supportive of what the Councillors were saying. Apparently a couple of the Councillors were even applauded. So it would seem that last night anyway, Councillors were representing the views of the people of Marple - which is exactly what they are supposed to do. The people in that hall last night didn't want a supermarket on Hibbert Lane it was just too high a price to pay even for a new college.   

You won't say that if the college closes or moves shops will close then have you been around at dinner time even Dominos is busy now .dont agree at all with what you've said .