Asda marple cricket club Wednesday meeting .

[marpleexile]

Who said anything about being "right" Dave ?

You did, Simone, when you wrote that 'Councillors have not let anybody down', meaning, presumably, that they have done the right thing. But I do agree with you that

the failure of the ASDA/CAMSFC depends entirely upon the success of Trinity Street and Trinity Street is entirely the thought child of the Marple 6.

I apologise, wheels, if you feel I am hectoring you - that is not my intention.  Like you and others on the forum, I am just sharing my own view on this long running and somewhat controversial issue.  However, when you write

Dave you are the only person I know who consistently contends that the application is about the redevelopment of the college.

...you seem to forget that if the college  hadn't needed to redevelop its facilities, the scheme would never have existed.  So in that sense it is absolutely about the redevelopment of the college.

Do you think asda will appeal .or decide its a dead duck .and hopefully go for the other site .

It was always going to take an appeal, so Asda are prepared for that. The question is whether Trinity Street changes things sufficiently that they no longer think they can win an appeal. Widely speculating here, but I would say that if think there is a greater than, say, 20%, chance of winning the appeal, they'll have a go, as it was always in the plan to appeal, they'll have budgeted for it, and the rewards if they win will be significant. They won't both if they think Trinity Street makes an appeal an almost certain failure.

I highly doubt they will instead go for Trinity Street, as it's not really viable, and has only been put up as a spoiler.

[amazon]

Who said anything about being "right" Dave ?

You did, Simone, when you wrote that 'Councillors have not let anybody down', meaning, presumably, that they have done the right thing. But I do agree with you that

the failure of the ASDA/CAMSFC depends entirely upon the success of Trinity Street and Trinity Street is entirely the thought child of the Marple 6.

I apologise, wheels, if you feel I am hectoring you - that is not my intention.  Like you and others on the forum, I am just sharing my own view on this long running and somewhat controversial issue.  However, when you write

Dave you are the only person I know who consistently contends that the application is about the redevelopment of the college.

...you seem to forget that if the college  hadn't needed to redevelop its facilities, the scheme would never have existed.  So in that sense it is absolutely about the redevelopment of the college.

Do you think asda will appeal .or decide its a dead duck .and hopefully go for the other site .

[Dave]

Who said anything about being "right" Dave ?

You did, Simone, when you wrote that 'Councillors have not let anybody down', meaning, presumably, that they have done the right thing. But I do agree with you that

the failure of the ASDA/CAMSFC depends entirely upon the success of Trinity Street and Trinity Street is entirely the thought child of the Marple 6.

I apologise, wheels, if you feel I am hectoring you - that is not my intention.  Like you and others on the forum, I am just sharing my own view on this long running and somewhat controversial issue.  However, when you write

Dave you are the only person I know who consistently contends that the application is about the redevelopment of the college.

...you seem to forget that if the college  hadn't needed to redevelop its facilities, the scheme would never have existed.  So in that sense it is absolutely about the redevelopment of the college.

[wheels]

Good post Simone, indeed Dave you are the only person I know who consistently contends that the application is about the redevelopment of the college. I actually suspect that for most people the ASDA application is about convince/cheaper shopping/ stimulating the local economy/destroying the local economy take your pick. You cannot hecktor us in the same way MiA did into holding your view.

[simonesaffron]

Who said anything about being "right" Dave ?

Who is to say what is right ?

All the points that you are making are just complete assertions, you can't substantiate any ONE of them. You don't know any of these Councillors any more than I do. How many meetings have you been to regarding this issue ? You actually sound like MIA at its worst, only from the opposite point of view.  If Councillors had wanted to take the blameless, easy way out, then all they had to do was nothing. Then, ASDA'S scheme would have just sailed through and they could have just said that they were "powerless" and that it was a "planning issue" and not a "political one". But they didn't do that, they brought the Trinity Street scheme into the picture. Let's not be mistaken here the failure of the ASDA/CAMSFC depends entirely upon the success of Trinity Street and Trinity Street is entirely the thought child of the Marple 6.

You're just mad because they don't agree with you so you're resorting to calling them names.

How do you know that they haven't ..."applied their own judgement, informed by their own beliefs and principles"...?

How do you know that they just don't honestly believe that whatever the benefits a supermarket on that site would bring, the harm outweighs them and that it is just too big a price to pay and just too damaging for Marple ?

How do you know that they don't believe that they are representing ..."all 23.000 residents of Marple who elected them?

[simonesaffron]

I think you'll find that one of the 'Asda representatives' was the College's Head of Finance.

Why would I want to "find" that ?

What exactly is your point Harry ?

Did he actually make the case for the College ?

What did he actually say?

[Dave]

Simone writes:  

Councillors have not let anybody down. In fact the contrary is true. They've held a view, they've been continuous throughout, they've stood by it and they've defended/promoted it at every opportunity.

Well, yes, bully for them - but just because they have been consistent it doesn't mean they have been right.  You can just as easily be consistently wrong as consistently right!  

Politicians at both levels - national and local - are constantly on the receiving end of lobbying from pressure groups, for all sorts of things, which are often contradictory.  Tighten up drug laws/ liberalise drug laws.  Cut public spending/ increase government spending.  Leave the EU/ remain in the EU.  Convert schools into academies/ leave schools under local authorites. Etc etc etc.  

They have to listen politely to all these lobbies, but they should not (indeed, in the examples given above, cannot) give way to all of them.  They have to apply their own judgment, informed by their own beliefs and principles (if they have any), and have the courage and vision to take a stand rather than just go with whichever group shouts loudest.

Our councillors could have done that.  They could have listened to the noise from MIA and said, 'yes, OK, we are listening to your point of view, and we sympathise with those residents who live near the Hibbert Lane site who would be affected by this development, and we will work closely with them, with the college and Asda, and with the planners, to mitigate the effects of the development on neighbouring properties.  But our responsibility is to all the 23,000 residents of Marple who elected us, both present and future, and we believe that investing in the best possible educational facilities for our young people is in the best long-term interests of the community.'

But that would take vision, and courage, qualities which seem to be in sadly short supply among our councillors.

As for the college, I can only agree with you, Simone.   I note that Harry writes:

I think you'll find that one of the 'Asda representatives' was the College's Head of Finance.

Well there's a surprise!  The college has a last opportunity to persuade the council of the importance of education, and do they send along an educationist?  Of course not - they send an accountant    

[Harry]

I think you'll find that one of the 'Asda representatives' was the College's Head of Finance.

[simonesaffron]

I didn't go to the meeting but just because ASDA referred to "the silent majority" (well they would wouldn't they) that doesn't actually mean that there is one.

I disagree Dave, Councillors have not let anybody down. In fact the contrary is true. They've held a view, they've been continuous throughout, they've stood by it and they've defended/promoted it at every opportunity. They've faced the public just as they did again last night. Whether you agree or disagree with them - they have been there - which is more than can be said for the College.

It is the College management that should be ashamed for their craven ways. They have cowered and hidden throughout. They have had countless opportunities to present their case but have not taken up even one of them. They have been content to throw their lot in with ASDA and allowed this greedy and shameful conglomerate  to go into battle for them. They have found themselves in a fair one to one fight but instead of displaying one gramme of courage they have run off to the school bully seeking his protection. If you hold anybody in contempt here it should be CAMSFC.

It leaves me to ponder exactly what virtues are they believe they are instilling into our children? 

[Dave]

Henry's summary of the meeting speaks volumes for how badly the college has dealt with this issue, allowing it to be seen as an issue about a new supermarket, instead of what it should always have been: an issue about Marple getting a rebuilt college. 

the Asda proposal to knock down the Hibbert Lane College to build a supermarket. Councillor Kevin Dowling gave a rousing speech opposing the Asda application..... A couple of Asda representatives tried to present their case ...The Asda representative referred to the "silent majority" of Marple people wanting Asda to build the supermarket on Hibbert Lane. The councillors at the meeting unanimously recommended the Asda planning application be refused. ...local opposition to the Asda scheme.

'The Asda proposal'....'Asda representatives'....'Asda's case', etc etc  That's not what it should be about.  Where were the college's representatives?  Why wasn't the college's case put to the meeting? 

And as for this: 

The Asda representative referred to the "silent majority" of Marple people wanting Asda to build the supermarket on Hibbert Lane. It appears Asda had not managed to persuade them to come along to tonight's meeting to speak in support of Asda's case, as they were conspicuous by their absence.

As one of that 'majority' (though I have not been silent, I guess  ) I was certainly not going to go along and speak in support of Asda.  I couldn't care less about Asda.  But if the college had been there in force, and sought to use the occasion as a platform to speak loudly and passionately about the importance of education to the local community, I and others might have felt very differently, and who knows, perhaps the college could even have shamed our councillors into taking a more supportive attitude to this issue.  As it is, they have badly let us down, and the coming generations of young prople who will continue to put up with second rate and deteriorating facilities. 

[Belly]

Yes BlueZorro, quite a lot happened at tonight's meeting, actually. Around 200 members of the general public crowded into the meeting, to hear Peter Wellstead of Marple in Action put forward a compelling and convincing argument against the Asda proposal to knock down the Hibbert Lane College to build a supermarket. Councillor Kevin Dowling gave a rousing speech opposing the Asda application. Both received prolonged ovations from the audience. A couple of Asda representatives tried to present their case by putting forward weak and poorly presented arguments which, not surprisingly, were  treated with ridicule by the audience.The Asda representative referred to the "silent majority" of Marple people wanting Asda to build the supermarket on Hibbert Lane. It appears Asda had not managed to persuade them to come along to tonight's meeting to speak in support of Asda's case, as they were conspicuous by their absence. The councillors at the meeting unanimously recommended the Asda planning application be refused. The final decision will be made by Stockport planning committee on Friday. No doubt objectors to the scheme will be out in force at the meeting on Friday to show Stockport planning councillors and officials the depth of local opposition to the Asda scheme.

So we can guess what side Henry supports then!

[wheels]

Yes BlueZorro, quite a lot happened at tonight's meeting, actually. Around 200 members of the general public crowded into the meeting, to hear Peter Wellstead of Marple in Action put forward a compelling and convincing argument against the Asda proposal to knock down the Hibbert Lane College to build a supermarket. Councillor Kevin Dowling gave a rousing speech opposing the Asda application. Both received prolonged ovations from the audience. A couple of Asda representatives tried to present their case by putting forward weak and poorly presented arguments which, not surprisingly, were  treated with ridicule by the audience.The Asda representative referred to the "silent majority" of Marple people wanting Asda to build the supermarket on Hibbert Lane. It appears Asda had not managed to persuade them to come along to tonight's meeting to speak in support of Asda's case, as they were conspicuous by their absence. The councillors at the meeting unanimously recommended the Asda planning application be refused. The final decision will be made by Stockport planning committee on Friday. No doubt objectors to the scheme will be out in force at the meeting on Friday to show Stockport planning councillors and officials the depth of local opposition to the Asda scheme.

Absolutely nothing happened at this evenings meeting that we did not already know would happen. I dispair that 200 are so gullible as to turn up. Even when we get to H&P we already know what the decision will be.

[guy]

Yes BlueZorro, quite a lot happened at tonight's meeting, actually. Around 200 members of the general public crowded into the meeting, to hear Peter Wellstead of Marple in Action put forward a compelling and convincing argument against the Asda proposal to knock down the Hibbert Lane College to build a supermarket. Councillor Kevin Dowling gave a rousing speech opposing the Asda application. Both received prolonged ovations from the audience. A couple of Asda representatives tried to present their case by putting forward weak and poorly presented arguments which, not surprisingly, were  treated with ridicule by the audience.The Asda representative referred to the "silent majority" of Marple people wanting Asda to build the supermarket on Hibbert Lane. It appears Asda had not managed to persuade them to come along to tonight's meeting to speak in support of Asda's case, as they were conspicuous by their absence. The councillors at the meeting unanimously recommended the Asda planning application be refused. The final decision will be made by Stockport planning committee on Friday. No doubt objectors to the scheme will be out in force at the meeting on Friday to show Stockport planning councillors and officials the depth of local opposition to the Asda scheme.

[amazon]

Sorry amazon was asking the forum in general from the thread

Ok no problem .

[Bluezorro]

Sorry amazon was asking the forum in general from the thread