Get Britain Cycling

[chicken lady]

Perhaps cyclists should have the same responsibilities as motorists if they expect the same rights - a system of registration and insurance, and payment of tax!

[wheels]

Hollins yes I do mean that cyclists are less at risk travelling down than up. Travelling down for example Dan Bank you move with the traffic and generally are safe doing so. Although Duke makes an excellent point that some drivers go out of their way to close up spaces as he describes or to deliberately move towards cyclists. Whilst travelling up hill cyclists are much slower and are more at risk from speeding traffic.

[Duke Fame]

Did you really mean that, Wheels? Are cyclists any more likely to get knocked over by cars when they are travelling uphill than downhill?

At various times I'm a pedestrian, cyclist, car-driver - I think we all have to be reasonable about how we share the available space. As a cyclist the only accidents I've had with cars has occurred when a driver has opened a car door in my face.

I think there is a difference in Europe than here. In part, it's because most Europeans would have gone through their late teens & twenties on scooters and therefore there is a better understanding of 2 wheels.

The problem in the morning is there appears to be a very real road rage going on for anything that overtakes. On the bike, I will usually beat any car if I'm leaving 7.30 - 8.30 but car drivers will actually willfully close up any spaces. A woman last year actually tried to ram me with her Citeroen Picasso even with her child in the car. This was because that whilst she was in stationary traffic, I passed her and when from the outside to the inside in front of her stationary car.

[hollins]

Cycle paths are not meant to cycle down they are for cycling up.

Did you really mean that, Wheels? Are cyclists any more likely to get knocked over by cars when they are travelling uphill than downhill?

At various times I'm a pedestrian, cyclist, car-driver - I think we all have to be reasonable about how we share the available space. As a cyclist the only accidents I've had with cars has occurred when a driver has opened a car door in my face.

[wheels]

Of course he doesn't if anyone cycles down on the right (cycle path) what do they then do at the bottom if they are going to Stockport. Cycle paths are not meant to cycle down they are for cycling up.

[amazon]

It's not much good on that side of the road if you are going down hill.

Don't understand what you mean .dont you go down hill on the other side of the road .

[wheels]

CTCREP,

I'm not really sure that I understand the para about "compensation".

My point is a simple one - it isn't safe for the cyclist to cycle on the public roads in Britains towns and cities.

As for Norway and Rome, enjoyed the stories but we don't live there, do we ?

By the way, have you ever had an accident on your bike?   

Simone the roads of Britian are perfectly safe for cyclists but could be made even safer with more cyclists and better driving. Do you think Amsterdam and other places were build as they are now. In fact the cycling infrastructure in Holland is much more recent than many realise. What is needed to make Britian even safer for cyclists is not hiding cyclists out of the way of road but better driving whererby driver understand that the priority on the roads are pedistrians, cyclists then cars. as it is in other European countires.

[simonesaffron]

Duke,

Supermac, Harold McMillan never played for Newcastle did he ?

[simonesaffron]

CTCREP,

I'm not really sure that I understand the para about "compensation".

My point is a simple one - it isn't safe for the cyclist to cycle on the public roads in Britains towns and cities.

As for Norway and Rome, enjoyed the stories but we don't live there, do we ?

By the way, have you ever had an accident on your bike?   

[wheels]

Goodness I am agreeing with Duke again. If your going down to the lights as Duke says your either going very fast if the lights are on green or slowly if they are on red as their is no possibility of passing motor traffic as they seem unable to leave space to let you through.

But hey we are road users with the same rights as cars they will just have to wait for me. Also the state of the road after you have gone passed the lights is so poor you have to go out to the middle of the road. I have to say most drivers seem to understand how difficult the Dan Ban/17 Windows transfer is and I have never had hassel there.

Simone I cycle to Stockport every day and it takes about 24 minutes, not much longer than driving. If I can do that at 61 I urge you to taqke it up.

[Duke Fame]

Thought there was a cycle lane on dan bank on the new footpath going down or up which ever you prefer .

It's not much good on that side of the road if you are going down hill.

[amazon]

It's Supermac!! Not Mick Channon.

I think a little cycle lane marked on Dan Bank would help just reminding motorists to allow a bit of room. THe difficulty is that on that road, the cyclist is either going ot be going fast or very slowly.

Thought there was a cycle lane on dan bank on the new footpath going down or up which ever you prefer .

[Duke Fame]

In theory Wheels I can relate to your assertion but in my experience the reality doesn't support it.

I've known perhaps 30 cyclists over the years to varying personal degrees and virtually everyone of them has a story about how they "went down" off their bike. A very good friend of mine was almost killed cycling to work. He fell off his bike and unbelieveably a car ran over him. Needless to say he still cycles to work. I actually know a cyclist who was knocked down by an ambulance and another one who was run over by another cyclist. You see, cyclists are all crazy, you'd have to be crazy to cycle down Stockport Rd on a January morning at 8am. You'll never get a cyclist off his bike and he won't be happy until he's converted the rest of us. Duke says that he can't play football anymore because of a cycling accident but that won't stop him cycling. That's another example that supports my theory that cyclists are crazy. Although on reflection Duke has posted a picture of Mick Channon in a Southampton shirt so he obviously didn't know much about the sport in the first place.

Cycling is a healthy outdoor pursuit and it is safe if you do it properly and carefully - In Amsterdam - not in Gtr Manchester.   

It's Supermac!! Not Mick Channon.

I think a little cycle lane marked on Dan Bank would help just reminding motorists to allow a bit of room. THe difficulty is that on that road, the cyclist is either going ot be going fast or very slowly.

[CTCREP]

Hello Simone

You said -You might as well walk amongst the traffic as cycle amongst it for all the protection you have on a bike and you wouldn't do that would you? 

A few years ago we went on holiday to Rome, the traffic looked chaotic but the Holiday Rep said " If you want to cross the road, just do it, the traffic will move round you if necessary"  We did, and it did. Last year we went to Norway where we felt virtually obliged to cross the road as we had glanced at what appeared to be a pedestrian crossing and the traffic then stopped.

The difference is that Italy and Norway like the majority of Europe, but significantly not the UK, adhere to the policy of Strict Liability with respect to road accidents. In  their cases it is up to the motorist to prove the victim was at fault if he/she doesn't want to take responsibility in any collision. In the UK the principle of "Innocent until proved Guilty" is always quoted as paramount, although in reality 90% of the time the victim has no way of proving the motorist guilty.  It is said that to bring in Strict Liability would result in a culture of cyclists deliberately running into motorists. We know motorists do this themselves - the deliberate stop to force someone behind them to run into them and then claim compensation - but apart from the fact that a bike running into a car may only scratch the paintwork and is far less likely to damage the driver but to achieve a major compensation claim similar to the motorist example above would mean really risking your own life. You wouldn't do that, would you?

Unfortunately the law needs changing, but those who might be able to do so are practically all motorists. Politicians and Lawers should have to declare an interest and leave it to the non-motoring few to decide, but that is unlikely.

[simonesaffron]

CTCREP,

I do ask myself ..."who is doing the knocking off". I said that you were "crazy" not culpable. As you infer it isn't the cyclists it is the motorists. Of course it is, but blame doesn't prevent either of them from being there does it? It doesn't matter whose fault it is when your lying concussed in the middle of the road. To me it is more where you cycle than anything else.

I'm not against cyclists nor cycling, I'm just concerned for their safety. The scheme that you have kindly taken the time to explain seems like a very good idea and I support it but that's just one scheme.

My wider point though is that the roads in Greater Manchester as they are, are just not safe for cyclists. You might as well walk amongst the traffic as cycle amongst it for all the protection you have on a bike and you wouldn't do that would you? I wouldn't allow my children to have bicycles as there was too much traffic on the roads and that was in the 80's. The thought of my grandkids cycling to school on today's public roads just absolutely fills me with dread.