Marple Hall School NUHOPE regime

[admin]

Unfortunately, I haven't worked out how to extract quotes from other posts so I will have to copy and paste . . .

To quote another post press the "Quote" button when looking at that post and / or while you are crafting your reply scroll down to any of the posts below and click "Insert Quote". You can edit the quoted bit to include only the text you are referring to, just make sure you don't delete the quote controls in the square brackets.

I don't know if we can private message on here. . .

Yes you can private message on here. Just hover the little icons next to the poster's name and click the one that says "send private message" or (depending on if they are on-line or not).

Here's a link to the Help section for Private Messages: http://www.marple-uk.com/smf/index.php?action=help;page=pm

[I am the Walrus]

Unfortunately, I haven't worked out how to extract quotes from other posts so I will have to copy and paste . . .

From the previous post:"I accept Nu Hope is not all about behaviour, but there is something of a difference between the 2012 & 2013 reports"

I agree that there are many positive differences between the Ofsted reports for 2012 and for 2013 BUT in the 2013 report, under the section regarding behaviour we also see:

 " in some instances, students, while compliant, lacked self-motivation, drive or a thirst to acquire new knowledge."

That certainly is something of a difference, not noted in previous inspections . . .


I would also like to address a couple of other earlier points :

The child who was given NuHope for being late to class, because the previous class let them out late - why was she the only one to get a NuHope, surely the entire class of 20+ kids got one? No, just her? I would imagine then that there were other factors at work that contributed to her lateness.

This is easily explained by the fact that students are not all in the same classes together at the same time. They have taken different options to each other so a group who is let out late from, say P.E., will then go their separate ways to their individual subject lessons.

I am sure contacting school to resolve individual issues is more of a way forward than bitching and stirring on a website

It is clear from this forum that I am not the only parent who has tried to discuss this with school on an individual basis and been left feeling stonewalled. I haven't noticed any bitching or stirring from those expressing concerns about NUHOPE on this forum.

The views on here of 3 or 4 parents  and their friends, whilst clearly important may not represent the majority view.

I am not aware that I personally know any of the other posters on this site. We may not represent the majority view OR we may. We don't know because we all seem to have been told that we are the only individuals complaining. In any case we still have a valid view.


Sometimes these opinions are not real. Sometimes the people aren't even real, sometimes they just assume the persona of their poster identity.

I understand the point being made and yes, posters will assume an identity, mainly to protect themselves and their children from any potential backlash BUT I can assure you that the opinions I have expressed and the scenarios I have described are very real. I cannot speak for any other parents who may have posted in this particular discussion but I can tell you that the situations and emotions they have described are exactly the same things I have heard from other parents who I DO happen to know.


I would be delighted if nuhope was binned but I fear complaining formally as it would upset school and may damage my future relations with them. I'm sure that there will be times when I need their support with my children and so I don't want to fall out with them. Also in many areas the school is excellent.   

How many other parents feel exactly the same way??


As for "data" I do not know exactly what exists. I am only told that less time is now lost dealing with minor issues in lessons but as I've said before, it seems to me that the issues, some incredibly minor, aren't being dealt with atall, merely shifted to a NUHOPE detention.

I don't know if we can private message on here so I might approach the Marple Hall, NUHOPE is it working for you, facebook page and see if they can get people interested in signing on to a letter to the school and governors. It may show that people are not confident in coming forward. It may show that the vast majority are happy with the status quo but it would be nice to be able to canvass parents opinions.
If I look at how many views this discussion has had and compare it to the number of responses; it would look like most people on here have no opinion on the subject but then I have no way of knowing how many members of this forum have school-age children . . .

[corium]

Just to follow up my previous comment it's worth reading the previous Ofsted report from 2012. If you look at the letter the inspectors sent to the pupils towards the end around half the points were behaviour related. Within the body of the report it's a regular issue in many places but here are some extracts:

The large majority of behaviour seen in lessons was good; however, behaviour around the
school and over time paints a less favourable picture. The majority of students who
responded to the survey feel that behaviour is good in their school and in lessons. However,
inspectors spoke to a broader sample of students ..... Some of them raised concerns about the standard of behaviour in a minority of
lessons. The large majority of parents and carers who responded to the survey feel that
behaviour is good at school and the majority feel that lessons are not disrupted by bad
behaviour. However, concerns were raised by parents about behaviour in some lessons and
the poor management of behaviour from time to time.

I accept Nu Hope is not all about behaviour, but there is something of a difference between the 2012 & 2013 reports

[Dave]

It''s all rather Orwellian, isn't it, and not just because the word NUHOPE sounds horribly like Orwell's 'Newspeak' in 1984!    It's also the assertions that it's 'working', without any evidence to back this up.  As in 'it's working, because we say it's working'!

Meanwhile, this is a very interesting sentence from the Ofsted report:

The leadership team recognises the fine balance between maintaining consistently high expectations of behaviour and sensitively establishing a positive climate for learning and sense of community

It's close to an admission by the school that maybe NUHOPE is not entirely conducive to 'a positive climate for learning and sense of community'.  'I Am' could be pushing at a half-open door........

[I am the Walrus]

The clue in the post above is "enforcing rigorously" There is no way that Ofsted could truthfully state "Many parents" because at the time of the inspection I seem to recall there were less than 30 parent responses posted on the Ofsted site and even now there are only 149 responses or roughly ten percent of parents with children at the school.

There is a record of all NUHOPES given out and it is indeed set out a bit like a league table at the bottom of our childrens gradebooks (end of term report)

Extremely demoralising.

As I said at the start, I am not criticising the school as such, but I am criticising the implementation and execution of the NUHOPE regime. It IS turning children off from school and has been a huge knee-jerk reaction to a blip-that being Marple Hall's one poor Ofsted report in an otherwise impressive record!

I am keeping this post short, as it is late, but I would like to say I hadn't intended for this to become in any way personal between some posters on the forum AND I do generally support the school and support the importance of good discipline.

I just think that NUHOPE is being used as a big stick for a small problem.

I will have another look on facebook at the page, I think it is MARPLE hall, NUHOPE, is it working for you?

I will see if anyone there is thinking about writing to the school and the Governors and see if we can't make it a joint effort. I don't want to undermine the school but I also don't want my children to end up resenting their time there when they have always enjoyed school so much previously . . .

[corium]

From the latest Ofsted report:

The school has recently introduced a new behaviour management policy, which most teachers
are enforcing rigorously. Many parents, students and staff believe that behaviour has improved
rapidly at the school as a consequence and inspectors agree. The leadership team recognises
the fine balance between maintaining consistently high expectations of behaviour and sensitively
establishing a positive climate for learning and sense of community

[Bowden Guy]

I wouldn't claim to know much about secondary education but I would be very surprised if the school did not have very detailed information about the performance of their pupils at primary school. You would then expect them to have an assessment of the progress they would be "expected" to make, based on that prior attainment. I would hope that they would then be monitoring the progress the pupils make against their "minimum target grades". There again, I could be wrong!

[simonesaffron]

This point about the 'data' is very interesting.

Where and what is this data?

Perhaps MHS feel that they had a better Ofsted report as far as 'discipline' was concerned after Nohope was implemented than before it was. Or perhaps they have actually compiled some data. What could it be ? Perhaps they have a file on each student or class and plot the Nohopes on some kind of graph on a monthly basis. Perhaps the Head Teach presents them to the staff like monthly sales figures whilst telling them ....'we must increase our Nohopes.' 

Maybe they are planning a competition and the end of term will see the inaugural Nohope Games. Where students can get; bronze, silver and gold Nohopes. It really is quite limitless they could be awarded for academia, attendance everything. You could have the Nohope Student of the year or even the nohope Teacher of the year.
         

[Dave]

I think Simone makes an important point here:

I have not actually picked up that people are criticising the school outside Nohope. My interpretation of it is that some people believe it to be a good school but that Nohope is detracting from the educational quality of the product in general and the educational experience for the students in particular

Agreed.  Those of us who have reservations about NUHOPE shoul not be mistaken for people who are critical of the school in general.  It did a good job with our three children when they were there, and I am reliably informed that if anything it is better still nowadays.  But that doesn't mean people aren't allowed to express negative opinions about anything at all! 

Meanwhile, I've just noticed this point in an earlier post by 'I Am':

My children try to discuss it with school too but we seem to get the same answers in that their "data" suggests it is working

Does anyone know what that means?  By what criteria is NUHOPE 'working'?  Presumably they mean it is improving behaviour, but what are these 'data' which indicate this?  It would be interesting to know. 

[simonesaffron]

Miss C,

I think that when you start feeling as if you are being patronised on the inter twaddle then you are taking it all a little bit too much to  heart.

This is an internet forum where people give views and opinions. Sometimes these opinions are not real. Sometimes the people aren't even real, sometimes they just assume the persona of their poster identity. Having said that I really did enjoy your diatribe. I thought that the way the thread of hysteria ran through it was hilarious. It made it Goonish or even Fawltyish and I could easily visualise one of those characters giving forth with those words. I hope that you will consider this a compliment.

Back on topic I think that your own understanding about the role of the governors is incorrect. It is entirely within their remit to do what you say they can't do and in any case the governor situation at MHS is unique within Stockport in that sense.

I have not actually picked up that people are criticising the school outside Nohope. My interpretation of it is that some people believe it to be a good school but that Nohope is detracting from the educational quality of the product in general and the educational experience for the students in particular and if this is what they believe then they are entitled to criticise. those STUDENTS are their CHILDREN It is not really for you to censor or even to understand. If you 'don't get it,' you don't get it - but you don't have to - it is all ENTIRELY up to you.

I think that Marpleexile makes a very good point when he/she talks about things 'unfairly impacting upon your child's welfare....'

If this is the case you have to do something. You can't just side with school because they are the school and they are part of the community.

Dave's advice is good advice ...'a short, reasonable, calm letter'.... and insist on a written reply. 



 

[JMC]

True that parents may not get the full story but sometimes parents have been told by teachers what the NUHOPE was for when they have enquired. My son got one very soon after starting year 7 (2 weeks in, when NUHOPE came into action for them after 2 weeks grace) for having a little bit of his shirt showing from under his sweatshirt/blazer. My daughter (year 10, excellent reports for behaviour etc/A*s-not saying that to brag but just to be clear she is generally an exceptional student) got one for closing her book when she had finished her work. Another one of my son's was nervous about his first ever NUHOPE recently but he actually 'enjoyed' it as he said they just read books after school.

After saying all this, I still respect the school to give out discipline as they see fit and they have dealt with bullying extremely well in my previous experience. Overall the school is very good and that has to be the main thing.

[Dave]

it is not governors role to introduce any new initiatives into a school

On the contrary, it is completely within the powers of school governors to introduce new initiatives to a school - indeed, it's one of the most important things that they do.  Of course, any new initiative will only work if it is implemented effectively, which means that it must also have the complete support of the headteacher and other senior staff. 

Meanwhile, 'I Am' writes

We are close to making a formal written complaint but not even sure who to address it to

Address it to the Headteacher, with copies to the Chair of Governors and the Parent Governors.  A short, calm, reasonable letter from a group of concerned parents should enable some progress to be made on this issue. 

[marpleexile]

It's very hard to judge this from the outside, because a lot of the info is third hand.

We've heard a couple of stories from parents about the seemingly stupid little things that have seen their offspring fall foul of NuHope, and if true, then it would appear that either the system is flawed, or it is being implemented badly.

However, from my own experience as a child, and having dealt with children via voluntary youth services, I strongly suspect that the version of events being relayed to the forum (via parents, via their kids), isn't the whole truth. When I was a child, when I got in trouble, unless it was so bad that school phoned home, the version I told my Mum was always significantly watered down. So, someone on here has reported that a child was given a NuHope detention for staring out of the windows. Probably true, but I would imagine that what little Johnny forgot to mention to mum, was that he spent the entire lesson staring out of the window, thus he did no work, and couldn't answer questions when called upon because of it, etc. The child who was given NuHope for being late to class, because the previous class let them out late - why was she the only one to get a NuHope, surely the entire class of 20+ kids got one? No, just her? I would imagine then that there were other factors at work that contributed to her lateness.

The principle of NuHope seems sound to me, clamp down on the small problems and the large ones take care of themselves. For me, the issue is whether it's being implemented properly, fairly and with enough common sense - and I suspect that it is.

But, if you truly believe that NuHope is unfairly impacting upon your children's welfare then follow the advice already laid out here, and make formal complaints.

[Miss C]

I'm no closer to it at all than you are Simone but therein lies my point. I offer an opinion, not direct experience and i still believe that parents have a responsibility as I cited previously. You however have just invited people to make a complaint when most of what you know about the school is from the forum! I find that unbelievable and crass! I am all for a forum such as this which stimulates discussion but there seems to be some people on here who have nothing better to do than stir up issues, scaremonger and then sit back to watch the results. I find it incredibly hard to believe that nuhope, nohope, whatever you want to call it, was the initiative of the Chair of Governors- it is not governors role to introduce any new initiatives into a school, especially regarding operational issues. There is a lot of conjecture on here and it makes it difficult to ascertain the facts. Parents experiences on here sound worrying admittedly and I am not taking anything away from their concerns but I am sure contacting school to resolve individual issues is more of a way forward than bitching and stirring on a website. And Simone, please don't patronise me when you seem to spend a significant amount of time on here holding court on what's right or wrong. For me, being part of a community is important and the school is as much a part of the community as the primary school, the shops, the pubs etc. I have heard a lot of positive things about the school, especially since the departure of the last headmistress. The views on here of 3 or 4 parents  and their friends, whilst clearly important may not represent the majority view. In my experience, rightly or wrongly, the silent majority do not have extreme views a s highlighted by the supermarket on Hibbert lane debacle. People seem to be very suspicious of the school and that I don't get. Fair play to anyone who works with kids these days with the constant changes in educational policy and hoops to jump through to secure our children a good future. The people I know who have children at the high school generally speak highly of it. A friend of mines son spent half term ski ing on a school trip and loved it. All I'm saying is it can't be all bad as is sometimes represented on here. Surely as a community we want to work together, support each other,build each other up, rather than point fingers- isn't that one of the reasons to be a community?

[simonesaffron]

It was my understanding at the time of the implementation of Nohope that it was the singular idea of the then Head Teacher,  Rose Hagen.  I thought that after she departed the school would see sense and discard it.

 I was though mistaken and I have since  learnt that it was as much the initiative of the Chair of governors as the Head Teacher's.

 There  used to be a link on the Council's website for complaints about schools. I don't know if it is still there although with the C of G at  MHS and the Council's  Executive Member for Education being one and the same perhaps that might not be the way.

I have never really heard anybody connected with the school explain the reason for Nohope. On the MHS website a recent posting declared that the school will publish a ..."Parent friendly guide to Nuhope."  I await with interest.

The other issue connected to Nohope that comes into view is: How is Nohope going to be reconciled to MHS's aspiration for a sixth - form. What A level Student is going to be prepared to put up with that ?