Travellers' Call up for auction on 26 February 2015

[admin]

There is a planning applciation to turn the Travellers Call into two residential dwellings coming up at Marple Area Committee on 14th December:

Item 5.(ii) http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?MId=8976&EVT=101&DT=A

[admin]

No idea what's happening at the Travellers Call (I suspect ideas have died a death) but there is a new funding opportunity for community pubs:

The ‘More than a Pub: The Community Pub Business Support Programme has been set up to support community ownership of pubs in England.

https://www.plunkett.co.uk/more-than-a-pub

[My login is Henrietta]

When I went up to Charlesworth this am there was a surveyor type person on the pavement opposite the Travellers, pointing his thingy (do I mean a theodolite) in the direction of the building and there is temporary fencing round the area at the back.

Looks as though something is happening.

There was a sign up a while back, which blew down in one of the storms suggesting possible availability for development . Demolition? 15 bijou residences to be erected on the carpark?

[admin]

I have someone who wishes to get in touch with the group who wanted to save the Travellers Call. They have tried the savethetravs email address but got no reply.

If anyone can put us in touch with the organisers please let me know via PM or email.

Thanks, Admin

[amazon]

Quite so.  From Robinson's narrow point of view, they don't want someone to come along and make a success of the Traveller's because  that could take business away from other Robbie's pubs nearby, such as the Windsor Castle and the Hare and Hounds (Mill Brow). 

But then it's a commercial business, who we should not expect to have any sense of responsibility to the local community.   Councillors, on the other hand...........

             Anyone know whats hapening about the Travellers call its gone quite /

[corium]

Whilst all will not be a success, around the UK there are a number of thriving community run pubs which work because they, for instance, use completely different financial models, funding arrangements. If there is a community interest in developing it, good luck to them. Going off piste slightly, I went for a stroll through Rollins Wood, another community initiative, recently and though it's not something I've done before, felt sufficiently impressed to know as and when they ask for shareholders, I would want to be involved.

[u360213]

 and the George and Dragon opposite hardly ever has more than one or two customers in it. I'm surprised Robinsons allow it to carry on.

Why you would make reckless and defamatory comments like this about somebodies business is beyond me. The George and Dragon is one of the few thriving local pubs, I know this because I actually go there rather than commenting in ignorance. My wife and I regularly comment that they are the hardest working licensees we know. The pub is packed on Wednesday and Thursdays for their excellent value food and is busy at weekend too. I was there yesterday to watch the rugby and it was very busy both with sports fans and diners.

Please remember this is about peoples livelihoods. If you dont know anything about the place just don't comment.

[simonesaffron]

No, I'm not saying that.  What I'm saying is that councillors should, wherever possible, support initiatives taken by community groups, if the aims are reasonable and community-focused, even if they doubt whether they will succeed.  In other words, as admin says, at least give them a chance!  All that will happen is that there will be a six-month delay while the group put together their bid.  And they have still got to outbid any other potential buyer, of course.   

So Dave, that is exactly what you are saying only you've put your own translation to it.

As well as this, it is not conditional that they have to be the highest bidder. Nor is it conditional that the vendor sells it to them even if they are. The choice of whom it is sold to, is entirely in the hands, in this case of Robinsons. They can sell to whosoever they wish and if they don't like the cut of somebody's cloth then they can completely ignore that bid, being an asset on the community register doesn't influence it one way or another. One empty pub in the scheme of things makes little difference to Robinsons but there are other pubs/businesses in Marple that are owned individually and if the owners want to close and sell them so that they operate as something else then they have an entitlement to do so.

I may be wrong (somebody will correct me I'm sure) but I think The Travellers Call is the first example of a Community Asset application for a business in Marple.

This is speculation on my part, but it wouldn't surprise me if The Councillors were sending a message to other community groups and that's why the vote was tight.   

[Dave]

Is this what you are saying Dave?  That every application for all  places/buildings/business to go on the Community Asset Register should be sent through on the nod simply because a community group is making the request ?

No, I'm not saying that.  What I'm saying is that councillors should, wherever possible, support initiatives taken by community groups, if the aims are reasonable and community-focused, even if they doubt whether they will succeed.  In other words, as admin says, at least give them a chance!  All that will happen is that there will be a six-month delay while the group put together their bid.  And they have still got to outbid any other potential buyer, of course.   

[admin]

There is more detailed information about this now on the Council web site here:

http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/ieDecisionDetails.aspx?Id=1856

Here's a quote from the report to the committee, which explains my comment that the officer presenting it did not put it across in a positive way:

Reasons: Members will note that the application is being made by ‘Save The Travellers Call’ who, in their application, are described as an ‘unincorporated body of 21 named members’. In this particular instance the nominating body has not provided any evidence  to suggest that there is a realistic prospect of continued or future use of the asset. For example there is no indication of how the ‘body’ would raise funds to purchase the asset and neither is there a business plan relating to the day to day running and up keep of the property. Furthermore there is no evidence which demonstrates the ‘body’s’ ability to run the asset in the future. As such, there is nothing to suggest from the application that there is any realistic prospect of future sustainability as far as this asset is concerned.

There is also a copy of the Robinson's letter that was read out on the night:

http://democracy.stockport.gov.uk/documents/s69277/ti%20appendix%201.pdf

So as I've already said, SavetheTravs have their work cut out to make this work but at least they've been given a chance.

Perhaps you can also see why I said that if the lady had not got up and spoken in support of the application it is very likely that it would not have been approved.

[My login is Henrietta]

We will all agree that the community group who want to revive the pub will not find it easy, but why should their elected representatives deny them a chance to try?  Councillors above all people should  be community-minded, and it is not for them to pre-judge whether such a plan will work or not.   They should always support worthwhile community initiatives, even if they fear that they may not succeed.  Even councillors can be wrong sometimes!

The operative word here is "worthwhile". This isn't the only pub for miles around in a tiny isolated village where the village shop has closed, there's no Post Office and there is no village hall or other venue for the non-existent activity groups. This is Marple Bridge not Ambridge and there needs to be some realism here. What do the protagonists propose to do with the Travellers Call?

Marple and district, including Mellor, already has two Women's Institutes, several groups of Scouts, Guides, Brownies, Cubs, etc., The Carver, soccer clubs for children, a rugby club for adult males, the golf club, the Conservative Club, two U3As offering a wide range of activities and interests, a Local History society and various church and chapel led groups, just to give a few examples, never mind a number of pubs which are struggling along. In what way would the Traveller's Call become a "community asset"?

I'm all for fighting the cause against the big guys but not for a pyrrhic victory.

[simonesaffron]

Is this what you are saying Dave?

That every application for all  places/buildings/business to go on the Community Asset Register should be sent through on the nod simply because a community group is making the request ?

Where is the discernment here, where is the wisdom, the judgement? 

[Dave]

We will all agree that the community group who want to revive the pub will not find it easy, but why should their elected representatives deny them a chance to try?  Councillors above all people should  be community-minded, and it is not for them to pre-judge whether such a plan will work or not.   They should always support worthwhile community initiatives, even if they fear that they may not succeed.  Even councillors can be wrong sometimes! 

[admin]

My problem with this is that Cllrs Alexander and Candler appear to be acting as 'dogs in a manger' - i.e.  people who spitefully prevent others from having something that they themselves have no use for.

Of course I can't tell you what the councillors were thinking or put words in their mouths but, as someone who was there, I would say that there was no spite whatsoever in their actions. I would suggest that they were simply unconvinced by the arguments put forward that it could be made to work as a community pub.

[Dave]

My problem with this is that Cllrs Alexander and Candler appear to be acting as 'dogs in a manger' - i.e.  people who spitefully prevent others from having something that they themselves have no use for.

Very few people use the Traveller's nowadays, but evidently there are a few who would like to transform it into the sort of pub which people would use.  What on earth is wrong with giving them a chance to do that?