What will happen to Labour and LibDems in 2016?

[ringi]

Remember that most work councilors do is never discussed in public, it is the day to day task of holding the council staff to account by making the staff believe they are being checked up on.

[amazon]

@Hoffnung  you make some startling assumptions about Councillors and candidates with regards to being whipped by their party and the party they support. I cannot speak for other Councillors or candidates but first and foremost I stood to represent the people of Marple South and to try to make a difference. I stood as a Conservative candidate as the party aligns closest to my belief systems than either Labour or Lib Dems or any other political party. I have not been whipped to vote one way or the other either in local issues or in full Council. I don't agree with everything the Conservative party states, or Labour or Lib Dem and will voice my opinion accordingly. A good idea is a good idea wherever it comes from.
You mention independent Councillors. The costs of standing for Councillor are not insignificant and would need some financial support. Does this make them independent or do you just mean independent from current political parties? You seem to be very vocal on issues and would perhaps make a good Councillor. Will you put your name forward?

YES come on Hoffnung give it a go .

[CllrKennyBlair]

@Hoffnung thanks for your response. I may be politically naive, but is that not what you want? People who are atypical 'politicians'. I have my own mind and I will vote how I see fit, not how I am told to, I am not at school.
Regards the not so insignificant costs I mean running an election campaign. You can put your name on the register quite easily and for little cost, but what's the point if you can't afford to run a campaign and get your name out there to be known to the electorate for them to vote for you.
As for your point on Council motions, I am amazed you refer to them. Certainly of all the motions I have been involved with, these have been debates on national issues with a tinge of localism thrown in. One of my main criticisms of this part of the Council meeting is the fact that we don't debate real local issues / motions. We know the national issues will have an impact on the people of Stockport but in reality what can we as Councillors do to change these. I will get involved in the debates, but we should be debating real local issues that we can have a direct impact on. Not issues where we resolve to write to someone to express our unhappiness or whatever.
You could also argue that there have been a number of 'defections' from one party to another, across all parties and this is an expression of different views.

You want Councillors who represent and work for the benefit of Marple Area. You have had two Marple Councillors on the Executive for I dont know how long and what benefit has this brought Marple? I nor my colleague have in our short time been whipped to vote in a certain way at all and more particularly at Marple Area Committee. I support your statement that councillors should not be bound by party whips and who above all else would have the interests of Marple Area and not the interests of their party at the forefront of their minds. I believe you have that already, certainly as far as I am concerned (other Councillors and candidates can post their own views). It may be that we disagree on what we believe is best for Marple Area or the way we go about doing things.

[Hoffnung]

Cllr Kenny,

These are not 'startling assumptions,' these are facts and they are quite easy to substantiate. Let us just use Stockport as an example.

How many times when debating various motions over (let's say) the last five years, do you think any councillor  (all parties) has voted against his/her party? Leaving the Ratepayers Party out of the equation there are three main parties in Stockport made up of 60 Councillors, if they debate one motion at each Full Council Meeting and they have 10 meetings a year, let's call that 50 motions over the period. You would think at least one councillor over 50 different motions across three different parties would hold a different view to his/her party on at least one occasion. Go on, tell me who it was when it was and what was the motion ? I won't hold my breath waiting for your answer. 

What are these not insignificant costs you refer to ? Do you mean standing for council or running an election campaign?

Of course I'm 'vocal,'  It is a community forum, what is the point of coming on it if you have nothing to say?

I don't doubt your own motives in standing as you've outlined them in any way, but I think that your political naivety is showing through a little in relation to whipping and the party line

As for that old one about putting my own name forward. I am under no illusions here. I would make a very poor councillor,  so I've no intentions of even attempting to inflict myself on the people of Marple           

[CllrKennyBlair]

@Hoffnung  you make some startling assumptions about Councillors and candidates with regards to being whipped by their party and the party they support. I cannot speak for other Councillors or candidates but first and foremost I stood to represent the people of Marple South and to try to make a difference. I stood as a Conservative candidate as the party aligns closest to my belief systems than either Labour or Lib Dems or any other political party. I have not been whipped to vote one way or the other either in local issues or in full Council. I don't agree with everything the Conservative party states, or Labour or Lib Dem and will voice my opinion accordingly. A good idea is a good idea wherever it comes from.
You mention independent Councillors. The costs of standing for Councillor are not insignificant and would need some financial support. Does this make them independent or do you just mean independent from current political parties? You seem to be very vocal on issues and would perhaps make a good Councillor. Will you put your name forward?

[Hoffnung]

We all have those Duke,

In fact following your own postings over the years, I think that you have a skeleton full of them.

I personally am not against political  'unknowns,' I didn't say that I was, although I am against political  'unknowings,' which is what we appear to have.  What I was challenging was the political judgement of a party which  is facing extinction in fielding an 'unknown unknowing' and expecting us to vote for them.

Furthermore, I don't know what I've said to give you the impression that Labour is my party, the last time I supported them in any way, Thatcher was Prime Minister..

As for having 'socialist ideals'  as a young person for a short time, well that's natural, I guess. But we are not talking about second year students, are we? We are talking here about 60 years plus men who have held political office for umpteen years. Surely you can see the difference.

I think I've said before, what I would like to see, at least locally in Marple, are some independent councillors who are not bound by party whips and who above all else would have the interests of Marple and not the interests of their party at the forefront of their minds. Surely you would support that too, instead of the same ole, same ole.       

[Duke Fame]

Geoff,

I am sure all five of them were as articulate as each other and I'm sure all five of them are good listeners. As for being 'knowledgeable,' with two former councillors standing, I doubt that Malcolm was as knowledgable as either of them. In fact we have yet to know what 
   
My question is about party political judgement. Why have you chosen a complete unknown in one ward and an ex labour mayor in another? Are you trying to commit political suicide in Marple. It is no wonder that my lib dem activist friend is disappointed.

I think you have a bone and are refusing to drop it Hoffnung.

Why is it a problem for an 'unknown' to throw their hat in the ring. There are a good few of the electorate who would like to limit the number of terms any councillor completes and the need for fresh ideas is important. Look at your party, had you not had the fresh ideas of Blair and Mandelson, you'd never have seen government.

As for changing parties, I think a lot of people had socialist ideals when they were younger but you grow out of it when you see the real world.

[JohnBates]

On Wed, all 3 Marple N councillors are getting together to try and improve parking in Marple.  I see that as positive.  (2 LDs and 1 (new) Con)

As Geoff says here, we are all putting ourselves forward with a view to improve things locally. We may (and will) disagree at times on how, but there is a willingness to work together as well, which we all need to do if things are to be improved.

[TomDowseMarpleSouth]

The Conservatives got in in Romiley around 5 years ago. At the next local election the following year the Lib Dems got back in by a couple of votes, I am guessing its going to be a similar close election this time in both of the Marple wards.

In general I think its good for democracy for it to be close, it stops the councillors being complacent.

Local elections should be about local issues, unfortunately people often confuse them with national issues. In reality its about bin collection, street cleaning, parks, housing, planning, transport, schools etc.

I agree. Clean competition is very healthy for local democracy. Also, there is no need for things to get personal. I thought it was brilliant that William Wragg MP took the Labour party candidate Michael Taylor and his family on a tour of the commons a few weeks after he was elected!

[Hoffnung]

It's a question well asked Hatter and he does, he lives in the ward and he is a married man with kids who go to the local schools and that's all good.

Apparently the only other candidate had no connection to Marple whatsoeverand according to my friend should never have stood. I'm not really criticising the candidates as individuals, I'm sure at worst they are only doing there best. My criticism and my libdem activist friend's  criticism is towards the local party. To me it seems that local libdem leadership is treating the Marple electorate with the same disdain that libdem national leadership treated the national electorate with.     

[hatter76]

I'll continue...

He told me that he was disappointed in the way the Sth Marple Hustings in particular were conducted. That of course is his opinion and he is entitled to it.

My question to you as a LD is this: Surely these local elections in Marple are going to be difficult enough for the Libdems? Why make them even harder, by selecting an unknown to stand in one and an ex labour mayor to stand in another. Basically,in a nutshell and on the one hand you are  asking the people of Marple to select the LDs to represent them locally and politically whilst on the other hand, you are demonstrating by your candidate selection, to the people of Marple, that you have no political judgement.

Would you not agree.   

Does the Lib Dem ex Labour candidate in Marple South have any local connection?

[Hoffnung]

Sorry Geoff,

I'm having technical difficulties...we have yet to know what Malcolm's political knowledge is. As far as I'm aware he has not yet ventured a political opinion. He has not joined in any of the debates on this forum as John Bates, Councillor Kenny and you yourself have. It has to be said that John Bates as a candidate has an informed opinion about Tram/Train strategy in Marple whereas Malcolm as of yet has no view on it. We don't need a councillor with NO views.   

Malcolm has told us that he plays cricket and was involved with the brownies and something about some council run charity. All very commendable, what exactly was this charity and what exactly does Malcolm do these days?

 

[Hoffnung]

Geoff,

I am sure all five of them were as articulate as each other and I'm sure all five of them are good listeners. As for being 'knowledgeable,' with two former councillors standing, I doubt that Malcolm was as knowledgable as either of them. In fact we have yet to know what 
   
My question is about party political judgement. Why have you chosen a complete unknown in one ward and an ex labour mayor in another? Are you trying to commit political suicide in Marple. It is no wonder that my lib dem activist friend is disappointed.

[CllrGeoffAbell]

5 people wanted to be our candidate for Marple North and, on the night, the best person probably won.

He's knowledgeable, articulate and listens.  I think we in Marple could do a lot worse than have Malcolm Allan as a councillor.

On Wed, all 3 Marple N councillors are getting together to try and improve parking in Marple.  I see that as positive.  (2 LDs and 1 (new) Con)

Everyone has to start somewhere.

[Hoffnung]

I'll continue...

He told me that he was disappointed in the way the Sth Marple Hustings in particular were conducted. That of course is his opinion and he is entitled to it.

My question to you as a LD is this: Surely these local elections in Marple are going to be difficult enough for the Libdems? Why make them even harder, by selecting an unknown to stand in one and an ex labour mayor to stand in another. Basically,in a nutshell and on the one hand you are  asking the people of Marple to select the LDs to represent them locally and politically whilst on the other hand, you are demonstrating by your candidate selection, to the people of Marple, that you have no political judgement.

Would you not agree.