A Neighbourhood Plan for Marple

[hatter76]

MCS are a little odd. According to the minutes from their last meeting, they have recommended rejecting planning permission for a development on the old Dale School site as it is for housing and not educational purposes?? What on earth are they thinking could be built there instead? The battle for keeping the Dale school open was lost a long time ago, any development there now is only ever going to be houses - if for no other reason than that is presumably the long term plan for financing the redevelopment of the Rose Hill site.

I think that they don't want to see anymore development in Marple. Why else would they reject a brownfield development site. Marple Civic Society are trying to impose their vision through this neighbourhood plan and the councillors appear to be broadly in favour based on previous quotes.

This isn't some sleepy Cotswold village that needs protecting. There is a housing crisis at the moment, young people are unable to get on the housing ladder. Some sensible development is necessary in my opinion.

[marpleexile]

Some of us will recall the houses that have recently been built along the canal bank near the Ring O Bells. MCS objected to these. The Councillors just ignored their objections as they politely brushed them aside. The same would happen to any neighbourhood plan.

MCS are a little odd. According to the minutes from their last meeting, they have recommended rejecting planning permission for a development on the old Dale School site as it is for housing and not educational purposes?? What on earth are they thinking could be built there instead? The battle for keeping the Dale school open was lost a long time ago, any development there now is only ever going to be houses - if for no other reason than that is presumably the long term plan for financing the redevelopment of the Rose Hill site.

[simonesaffron]

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if this 'plan' never gets out of the library. This is yet again an MCS initiative which will have no real official status.

Even if it does get out of the library, in my opinion it will have no impact on the reality of what actually happens. The Planning Committee for the Council will decide what gets built not MCS. Some of us will recall the houses that have recently been built along the canal bank near the Ring O Bells. MCS objected to these. The Councillors just ignored their objections as they politely brushed them aside. The same would happen to any neighbourhood plan.

[hatter76]

Just 260 new homes built in the whole of Stockport last year, yet the population keeps on rising.

[Belly]

So basically you agree that the idea of a neighbourhood plan as a way for communites to decide what if any development takes place is a fraud, as it does no such thing. You think that is a good thing, whereas I think it's a bad thing.

No. I don't think that a Neighbourhood Plan is the place to decide whether or not development should take place. Because in most cases the knee jerk reaction is always 'no thank you', as the Neighbourhood level is always swayed by local interest and not informed by the bigger picture of having to provide for countries needs.  A neighbourhood plan is fine for local people to have an input in where and how necessary development is guided and delivered.

[Condate]

So are you saying that it's a complete waste of time @Condate ?

If the neighbourhood plan is put forward as a way for the local community to decide what development is needed then yes, it's a complete waste of time, as that simply isn't an option. If it's put forward as a way to choose the least worst option, then there is some point. My main concern is that the plan will be used to justify development which is not wanted, because the plan can't prevent it. The plan should make clear that development is forced on the writers of the plan. I know some existing plans to just that.

[Condate]

Unfortunately in most cases if you asked 'communities' whether they want any more development (particularly housing), the answer is always 'no'. So in order for some progress to be made and to actually have a plan for an area / region that makes some form of sense and has some potential to actually happen, then some of the more difficult decisions do need to be made at a higher level where (dare I say it) Nimbyism has less sway. If Marple is allocated some of Stockport's housing numbers then so be it. Putting up the shutters makes no sense and only promotes bad or no planning at all.

So basically you agree that the idea of a neighbourhood plan as a way for communites to decide what if any development takes place is a fraud, as it does no such thing. You think that is a good thing, whereas I think it's a bad thing.

[Belly]

As I understand it, Marple will get what it is allocated, regardless of anything people here want. The neighbourhood plan can include extra housing over and above what is allocated, but cannot reject housing which the council wants to build. This is clear both from the legislation and also from the preambles to existing neighbourhood plans which make clear there is no real choice. All the plan can do is choose to a certain extent where things get built and not stop unnecessary and damaging development.

Once the plan, with all the develoment people don't want but can't stop, is approved, the council and goverment can say 'well, you supported it', depite the plan being nothing like the plan the people here actually want, because the plan is not about letting local people decide what to do.

For a neighbourhood plan to mean anything, it must allow local people to make decisions which do not have to match what the council or government have decided. Otherwise, it is meaningless and a fraud.

Unfortunately in most cases if you asked 'communities' whether they want any more development (particularly housing), the answer is always 'no'. So in order for some progress to be made and to actually have a plan for an area / region that makes some form of sense and has some potential to actually happen, then some of the more difficult decisions do need to be made at a higher level where (dare I say it) Nimbyism has less sway. If Marple is allocated some of Stockport's housing numbers then so be it. Putting up the shutters makes no sense and only promotes bad or no planning at all.

[admin]

As I understand it, Marple will get what it is allocated, regardless of anything people here want.

So are you saying that it's a complete waste of time @Condate ?

[Condate]

The aim of a neighbourhood plan would be for local people to have some say and control over what is built in Marple @Russ . Without it, and maybe even with it, Marple will otherwise get what it is allocated and will have no say in the matter. So it will surely be better to have a plan rather than not to? I would expect a Neighbourhood Plan to address issues like traffic and highlight problem areas like you are concerned about.

As I understand it, Marple will get what it is allocated, regardless of anything people here want. The neighbourhood plan can include extra housing over and above what is allocated, but cannot reject housing which the council wants to build. This is clear both from the legislation and also from the preambles to existing neighbourhood plans which make clear there is no real choice. All the plan can do is choose to a certain extent where things get built and not stop unnecessary and damaging development.

Once the plan, with all the develoment people don't want but can't stop, is approved, the council and goverment can say 'well, you supported it', depite the plan being nothing like the plan the people here actually want, because the plan is not about letting local people decide what to do.

For a neighbourhood plan to mean anything, it must allow local people to make decisions which do not have to match what the council or government have decided. Otherwise, it is meaningless and a fraud.

[admin]

but how do people put a neighbourhood plan forward when they are in such disagreement.

They form a Neighbourhood Forum and get on with it surely?

[Russ]

The aim of a neighbourhood plan would be for local people to have some say and control over what is built in Marple @Russ . Without it, and maybe even with it, Marple will otherwise get what it is allocated and will have no say in the matter. So it will surely be better to have a plan rather than not to? I would expect a Neighbourhood Plan to address issues like traffic and highlight problem areas like you are concerned about.

That is correct but having read through this thread & it's diversity there would appear to be too many hymn sheets & not enough looking at the implications of what they suggest. Just mho but how do people put a neighbourhood plan forward when they are in such disagreement.

[admin]

What, more houses in Marple! 

The aim of a neighbourhood plan would be for local people to have some say and control over what is built in Marple @Russ . Without it, and maybe even with it, Marple will otherwise get what it is allocated and will have no say in the matter. So it will surely be better to have a plan rather than not to? I would expect a Neighbourhood Plan to address issues like traffic and highlight problem areas like you are concerned about.

[Russ]

What, more houses in Marple! 

The 7.30am metallic snake to Stockport would stretch as far back as New Mills.

We need more routes in & out before even thinking about bringing in more people & traffic, or maybe providing local work other than shelf stacking.

Marple used to be a very busy & prosperous small town with more employment than people, workers being shipped in from all the neighbouring towns, even Manchester. Likely a lot less crime then, with full employment.

[admin]

Here's an update on the Action and Information Week Schedule of Events*

Monday 14th March to Saturday 19th March, 10am to 4pm:
Exhibition at the Public Library on Neighbourhood Planning – what it means and what it can do for Marple. With material from surrounding towns that are working on their own Neighbourhood Plans.

Wednesday 16th March, 5.30pm:
Civic Society presentation on the Neighbourhood Plan proposal at Marple Councillor’s Area Committee meeting.

Thursday 17th of March 7pm to 8.45pm:
Stakeholder Meeting the in the Library. This will give local groups and individuals the opportunity to register their interest and express their views on the proposal.

Saturday 19th March 10am to 3pm:
An Interactive Question and Answer Session on Neighbourhood Plans and the proposed Marple Neighbourhood Forum.

*Check the Civic Society website for updates and schedule changes