Saving Cyclists Lives

[CTCREP]

Although I had contacted the Minister for Transport a year or more ago about the additional signalling lights, at the time I did not get a satisfactory reply. Since I created the petition I also contacted our MP William Wragg who forwarded my suggestion to the Department for Transport who now say that for several years long vehicles have had the option of fitting additional lights. Now the UK Government is supporting a German proposal to the United Nations to amend the International regulations in order to require vehicles over 6 metres in length to have additional signalling lights, with an amendment to allow the use of the side marker lights to flash in unison with the signalling lights. So it appears it may eventually happen.  It is a pity very few vehicle owners took up the earlier option, and that legislation will only apply to new vehicles, so probably another ten years before all long vehicles will comply, and many more cyclists lives will be lost unnecessarily during that time.

[rsh]

It's time these lyca covered Kamikazi pests on two wheels learned that they have to obey the rules just like other road users.

Sorry you had such an incident but really, yawn - I lose all sympathy with a final paragraph like this which even the Daily Mail would be bored of publishing.

If I posted every time I saw a motorist in the area doing something stupid my post count would be about ten times what it is. And even then I wouldn't laughably suggest ALL drivers were in the wrong just because of the 1%...

[shambles]

Travelling down Stockport Road the other day I passed a cyclist, safely, and a few hundred yards further on indicated to turn left. Due to the narrow entrance I needed to pull out to the right - still indicating left.

I watched in HORROR as the cyclist came down the inside between my car and the pavement - at full speed

Had I not been watching him and just turned I would have had a badly damaged car which MY insurance would have to pay for, and MY no-claims-discount would be affected.

It's time these lyca covered Kamikazi pests on two wheels learned that they have to obey the rules just like other road users.

[CTCREP]

Thanks for the support for the petition, as to whether or not this is the place for bringing it to peoples attention this is the problem. Obviously I have taken it to various cycling related organisations but regrettably most cyclists are of the opinion that there is little point as society as a whole and officialdom in particular has totally ignored the needs of cyclists for at least the last 50 years. This is one of the reasons some people on bicycles ignore the wishes of society, I don't condone their attitude, but I am not really surprised.  Taking the issue to places like newspapers leaves you in the hands of the editors who have to cater for their majority readers which at current rates means mainly non-cyclists.
To put things into perspective, currently there is a petition to stop Donald Trump from entering this country. It has nearly 600,000 signatures, we have less than 100 for a proposal that could save some cyclists lives. That is how important cyclists lives are considered in this country.

Please sign the petition. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/123652

[rsh]

Thank you Belly for stopping me from crying with despair with such a well rounded response. 

Although the petition has some merit this is probably simply the wrong place to be trying to sell it. We're not central London and don't have the same level of danger from HGVs specifically turning left. The biggest danger I feel around here is the narrowness of many roads and poor overtaking. An awareness campaign on how to overtake properly (or how sometimes you should just wait), as well as sensible schemes like adding "climbing" cycle lanes to hills (such as the Dan Bank one) would be my priority.

This is a very well-made video about rule 163 of the Highway Code:

[Belly]

"The transport industry pays £billions in fuel duty, £billions in road tax, and many more £billions in insurance to run their vehicles on the roads in the UK. How much do cyclists pay to use the roads £ZERO."

I can read. The three examples you quote:

Fuel Duty - Pollution related and to try to discourage / manage the level of car use (also, I accept, some is also arguably an easy form of 'general' tax revenue generation and nothing to do with actual road use, but that's something to take up with politicians and nothing to do with the debate as to mode of transport. If you don't want to line the chancellors pockets, then don't choose to make journeys that involve burning lots of fuel!).
Road Tax - Directly pollution related.
Insurance - To cover the potential for the operation of such vehicles to kill / injure people and / or seriously damage property.

Apart from the last of these three (and arguably the potential damage / risk of injury impacts for a cyclist are pretty small, but I'd happily support a small compulsory bike use insurance scheme) why should someone on a bike pay more than any other general tax payer who gains a basic benefit from a road system - lets be honest we all do either directly or indirectly? The costs you highlight are all proportionate to the 'damage' (actual and potential) that the use of an individual's motorised vehicle causes - this is particularly the case for HGV's which are the main source of noise and air pollution and the main underlying ongoing cause of highway carriageway failure.

I'm a car driver (on a daily basis). I accept the costs associated with that choice. It would be nice to be able to cycle to / from work everyday for effectively nothing - it would also be a good thing for everyone else on the roads and who live / work in all the properties that I pass if I did. But I don't. Mainly because there is not a shower at my work which makes it impractical, but that's another story. I'm certainly not going to bleat about how unfair it is that someone can use a cheaper, more environmentally friendly and less road network damaging form of travel than me and not have to pay through the nose for the privilege.   

[mikes]

Another person who can't read.  I was very careful to use the words "run their vehicles on the roads..." I never said "...pays to use the road.." .  The fact is that if you run any vehicle, except a pedal bike, you will pay a lot of money to put your vehicle on the road.  Whereas cyclists pay nothing to put their bikes on the road. 

If you don't own a car or lorry then you will pay nothing to put a non-existent vehicle on the road.  The transport industry pays multiple £billions to run their vehicles to get our goods to us.  Why should they be penalised even more?

[marpleexile]

You just don't get it do you.

The transport industry pays £billions in fuel duty, £billions in road tax, and many more £billions in insurance to run their vehicles on the roads in the UK. How much do cyclists pay to use the roads £ZERO.  Let's assume a very conservative estimate of 1 million HGVs and your infantile idea would cost the hard pressed transport industry £100,000,000.  That's if the work could be done for your wildly optimistic amount.

Hmmmm, I think you may have misunderstood how taxation in this country works.

No one, (or everyone depending on your point of view) "pays to use the road". Roads are paid for out of general taxation - local roads are maintained by Local Authorities and paid for by Council tax/local business rates, and national roads are maintained by the Highways Authority and are paid for by income tax/corporation tax.

Road tax hasn't existed for nearly 100 years in this country. Vehicle owners pay Vehicle Excise Duty (which is a charge based on their toxic emissions) for their vehicles, and the money for that goes into the general taxation pot, it is not ring fenced for spending on roads. In any case, most cyclists also own cars (I do), so pay this anyway.

Not sure what insurance has to do with anything, but I also have insurance cover should I be involved in an accident whilst on my bike (as do many cyclists).

Now stop pedalling (sorry about the pun) this stupid idea and go back to the drawing board. 

If you really want to save these morons wouldn't it be better to get them off the road until they learn the highway code and pay for insurance etc.

I agree with you on this though, whilst it's a nice idea, it would be better for society to either educate these idiots, or let them remove themselves from the gene pool.

[mikes]

Yes Mike

There are only 86 signatures so far.  It is sad to realise that probably 999 people out of 1000 are more interested in their prejudices than possibly saving someone's life.

Please sign the petition.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/123652

You just don't get it do you.

The transport industry pays £billions in fuel duty, £billions in road tax, and many more £billions in insurance to run their vehicles on the roads in the UK. How much do cyclists pay to use the roads £ZERO.  Let's assume a very conservative estimate of 1 million HGVs and your infantile idea would cost the hard pressed transport industry £100,000,000.  That's if the work could be done for your wildly optimistic amount.

Now stop pedalling (sorry about the pun) this stupid idea and go back to the drawing board. 

If you really want to save these morons wouldn't it be better to get them off the road until they learn the highway code and pay for insurance etc.

[Cyberman]

Ignoring the fact that it is madness to sneak up the inside of a large vehicle whether or not it has lights flashing, I am not signing because I think the task is a lot more complex than you suggest.

It might cost you £100 to do it with a few Scotchloks and some insulating tape, but to do the job properly is a lot more involved. The vehicle has a wiring loom which is protected from the elements - how do you break into that? Do it wrong and you risk putting a fault in the entire circuit, so no lights at all. It could be done at the factory, but is that a special build for the UK? Manufacturers will love that.

Nearly all vehicles already have a repeater indicator on the side which can be seen by cyclists. Sorry I don't think adding more is a sensible idea.

[CTCREP]

Yes Mike

There are only 86 signatures so far.  It is sad to realise that probably 999 people out of 1000 are more interested in their prejudices than possibly saving someone's life.

Please sign the petition.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/123652

[mikes]

As there are only 86 signatures on the petition it appears that very few give a hoots about idiotic cyclists. They are their own worst enemy.

[CTCREP]

Hello everyone

We still seem to be discussing the behaviour of various road users. The aim of the petition is to give cyclists the opportunity to save their own lives and not have to rely on over stressed motorists. All official discussions on the problem have centred around increasing driver awareness, and however good the proposals are they still rely on the driver to take action.   My proposal to link the lights is by far the cheapest, easiest and quickest to introduce - costing probably less than £100 - and will enable cyclists to take responsibility for their own lives. Whether or not some cyclists, and others, behaviour meets with your approval is another subject. This is about trying to prevent someone getting killed or injured. Please sign the petition.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/123652

[Dave]

Good points from Henrietta above.

It's been noticeable in recent years that horse riders have conducted a systematic 'charm offensive' with drivers, waving and calling their thanks when drivers pass them wide and slow. This seems to have worked well, and as rsh points out, relations between horse riders and motorists tend to be relatively polite:

Living on a fairly busy road in the area, horses seem to have become more common lately. It's startling to see motorists slowing to an absolute crawl behind them, waiting until it's absolutely, completely safe to do a full overtake into the opposite side of the road. The horse rider waves gladly. Then a person on a bicycle follows and gets skimmed less than a ruler width at 30mph+ by a motorist on a bend with poor visibility of oncoming traffic. They cling resolutely to the handlebars. If motorists could show the same level of respect to both, they might encounter fewer "defensive / selfish" cyclists, everyone might get along better, and people might just get where they're going in good time and alive.

So cyclists might do well to take a leaf out of the horse-riders' book. 

[My login is Henrietta]

"There is also the cyclist who regularly tries to race my car when I'm trying to overtake him in a safe place!"

Oh, yes, and I'd forgotten the one who pulls out in front of me without warning when I'm trying to overtake him. (Yes, he is a male!)

" It's startling to see motorists slowing to an absolute crawl behind them, waiting until it's absolutely, completely safe to do a full overtake into the opposite side of the road. The horse rider waves gladly. Then a person on a bicycle follows and gets skimmed less than a ruler width at 30mph+ by a motorist on a bend with poor visibility of oncoming traffic." Ah, yes, RSH, but the driver who is courteous to the horse rider isn't usually the same driver who behaves badly to the cyclist.

Interestingly, as a rider I used to find motor-cyclists the most courteous road users to horse riders - I suspect they know who hard the ground is!