Greater Manchester Spatial Framework - proposed built development sites

[jimblob]

90 cars on weekdays, comes to 450 per week, 1800 per month. That's still less than a third of the projected 6000 cars taken from the A6, and also assumes some of those 90 aren't just using the space because they work somewhere in Hazel Grove or at Stepping Hill. (you need a second mortgage to park there!).

completely agree...
as per my original post on this thread.
"Who's going to drive to Hazel Grove (painful enough already) and THEN opt to get on a bus rather than remain in the comfort of their own car?"

I might however consider using a bus to get to a station rather than risk leaving my car in in an unsecured car park every day.

[JohnBates]

Just had notification that there will be an extra-ordinary meeting of the Marple Area Committee to be held on Wednesday 30 November 2016 at 6pm in Marple Senior Citizens Hall in the Memorial Park  to consider the Greater Manchester Spatial Framework.

Further information can be viewed on the Combined Authority website:        www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk/GMSF

Councillors are extremely keen that residents attend so please spread the word.

[Dave]

The whole point of public transport is to remove the need for people to use their cars; not build park and rides that no one will use (Hazel Grove!)

Let's be clear what we are talking about. There are two park and rides in Hazel Grove: the one by the station, which is packed with cars every day, and the newer one by the bus terminus at the Rising Sun, which is generally empty.

Park and ride works with railway stations, because trains are a relatively quick and convenient way to travel in congested urban areas. They are useless with buses, because buses are slow and uncomfortable, and despite bus lanes, buses are almost as subject to traffic congestion as cars are.

The success of the park and ride at Hazel Grove station, and at many other suburban railway stations throughout the world, suggests that this would also be an excellent development at Marple and/or Rose Hill.

[jimblob]

There was about ninety cars there the other morning .when did you look was it sunday .

90 cars on weekdays, comes to 450 per week, 1800 per month. That's still less than a third of the projected 6000 cars taken from the A6, and also assumes some of those 90 aren't just using the space because they work somewhere in Hazel Grove or at Stepping Hill. (you need a second mortgage to park there!).

[barndoor]

The MEN has today published the news item: 'The 57 developments that would transform every Greater Manchester borough by 2035' on its website.

As it covers the whole of the Greater Manchester area there's a lot of information on the one page; the area closest to Marple has the sub-heading 'High Lane: 4,000 new homes'. There are links within grey boxes named, 'We can finally reveal which parts of Greater Manchester's green belt could be built upon' and a second link, 'All the sites developers want to build on across Greater Manchester – mapped', which some of us will already be familiar with. The second link is not a very satisfactory one as it shows the proposed sites as the centre point of each location, making it hard to get a sense of the size of proposed developments. A better map - showing the areas as polygons, not points - can be found here.

There's an awful lot of 'green and pleasant land' going to be dug up if all the proposed schemes get the go-ahead...

[amazon]

Back to my earlier rant on liberal ideologies and the delusional aspirations of some access schemes....

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/park-ride-hazel-grove-opens-9560401

the above was pitched to remove 6000 cars a month off the A6, 200 per day! A year on, I've never seen more than a couple of dozen cars in the park and ride, (31 days x 24cars = 744). Who's going to drive to Hazel Grove (painful enough already) and THEN opt to get on a bus rather than remain in the comfort of their own car?

£3M would have bought us a few extra hundred yards of SEMMS (the important bit we need from H-G to the M60) or paid to move Hazel Grove Station to where the park and ride is and make it of some use.

As for £70M + on improving access to Stockport, yeah, cos that's gonna pay off! Keeps Bethel's bricklayers in work though:
http://www.bethell.co.uk/0-7m-stockport-retaining-wall-latest-tcap-scheme-for-bethell/
£700k on bricks!

There was about ninety cars there the other morning .when did you look was it sunday .

[jimblob]

Back to my earlier rant on liberal ideologies and the delusional aspirations of some access schemes....

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/park-ride-hazel-grove-opens-9560401

the above was pitched to remove 6000 cars a month off the A6, 200 per day! A year on, I've never seen more than a couple of dozen cars in the park and ride, (31 days x 24cars = 744). Who's going to drive to Hazel Grove (painful enough already) and THEN opt to get on a bus rather than remain in the comfort of their own car?

£3M would have bought us a few extra hundred yards of SEMMS (the important bit we need from H-G to the M60) or paid to move Hazel Grove Station to where the park and ride is and make it of some use.

As for £70M + on improving access to Stockport, yeah, cos that's gonna pay off! Keeps Bethel's bricklayers in work though:
http://www.bethell.co.uk/0-7m-stockport-retaining-wall-latest-tcap-scheme-for-bethell/
£700k on bricks!

[JohnBates]

I've read it in more detail this morning and it looks like the developers of the 4000 new High Lane houses will have to pay a fee to pay for the Rose Hill tram trains. The Middlewood way goes right through the middle of the development.

I may be completely wrong here and this is pure guess, but is there a plan to extend the line to High Lane?

To quote the document:

"Provide financial contributions towards the delivery of a tram/train extension from Rose Hill Marple potentially linking to Hazel Grove. "

This means extending from Rose Hill to the New Development. Potentially linking to Hazel Grove  could mean chord to the Hazel Grove/Sheffield line, could even extend to Stepping Hill and Stockport, or alternatively to East Didsbury Metrolink.

"Contribution to refreshed SEMMMS"  may mean towards the A6 M60 link as well.

[jimblob]

I don't think so - but it would be a good idea. Even without a new development at High Lane, parking at Rose Hill is going to be a nightmare. I fear no-one has thought that through properly yet.

Of course, you could always build a new car park on the allotments........   

Great idea, because encouraging more traffic into Marple, where routes in and out are already incapable of handling traffic volumes is a really smart idea. The whole point of public transport is to remove the need for people to use their cars; not build park and rides that no one will use (Hazel Grove!) or tarmac over allotments and create more traffic. As nice as Middlewood Way is, it's original function as a railway, linking Macclesfield to Marple served us far better. Still can't believe when they re-built the recycling centre there they didn't use the railway to take the full skips away... There is track to Bredbury main recycling centre linked directly to Rose Hill! No, too obvious; lets throw a dozen extra heavy goods vehicles onto Stockport Road every day and make sure all that structural work done on Dan Bank a few years ago gets trashed a little sooner.
The sooner we realise that our town planning and highways departments are run by idiots the sooner we can quit anxting over this and get on with our lives, accepting a string of poor short term fixes whilst our tax-funded "thinkers" ponder over their liberal ideologies that will ultimately never come to fruition, but at least allow those strategists to make out they tried to do the right thing.

[barndoor]

Perhaps this could be amalgamated with the 'Greater Manchester Spatial Framework - proposed built development sites' thread so that replies relating to the same topic are in one place?

[Dave]

I may be completely wrong here and this is pure guess, but is there a plan to extend the line to High Lane?

I don't think so - but it would be a good idea. Even without a new development at High Lane, parking at Rose Hill is going to be a nightmare. I fear no-one has thought that through properly yet.

Of course, you could always build a new car park on the allotments........   

[Condate]

For all the talk about "consultation", there isn't and hasn't been the slightest chance of stopping this and similar developments unfortunately.

[hatter76]

I've read it in more detail this morning and it looks like the developers of the 4000 new High Lane houses will have to pay a fee to pay for the Rose Hill tram trains. The Middlewood way goes right through the middle of the development.

I may be completely wrong here and this is pure guess, but is there a plan to extend the line to High Lane?

[Dave]

But let's not repeat the same argument.

Agreed. But let's get our facts straight.  Hatter writes:

the only public transport they are offering is tram trains from Rose Hill with less seats than existing trains.

Current seats per hour from Rose Hill to Piccadilly (based on two class 142 trains per hour): 240
Future seats per hour  from Rose Hill to Piccadilly (based on five tram-trains per hour): 300

The above is for the purpose of making a direct comparison, acknowledging that both class 142s and tram-trains sometimes operate as double units.

I think hatter is dead right here though:

  Its quite a walk from High Lane to Rose Hill, so almost all will drive, where are they going to park?   What about new park and ride stations on the Buxton line which runs near to High Lane, why aren't these considered?

As for this:

only a fully electrified railway with decent trains and 400 plus seats running at high frequency will give us the system that we need.

In your dreams......... 

[hatter76]

Good to see the tram-train to Rose Hill in there, deep in the small print of the first document.

No its not good Dave, only a fully electrified railway with decent trains and 400 plus seats running at high frequency will give us the system that we need, similar to Merseyrail. But let's not repeat the same argument.

If I read it right there is 4000 new homes for High Lane, the only public transport they are offering is tram trains from Rose Hill with less seats than existing trains. Its quite a walk from High Lane to Rose Hill, so almost all will drive, where are they going to park?
What about new park and ride stations on the Buxton line which runs near to High Lane, why aren't these considered?

As for the new airport relief road, its going to soon fill up so I'm not sure its going to relieve congestion as some on here have claimed in the past.