Tram train and transport in Marple and Stockport

[Duke Fame]

@Duke Fame - whilst it was true that there was a lot of wildcat strikes and industrial action in the 70s (and indeed the Heath government was effectively brought down on the back of it), I respectfully suggest that the wealth is not being as fairly distributed these days: the rich are getting proportionately richer, some firms regularly pay less than minimum wage and pension schemes are being sucked dry.

Firms do not pay under the minimum wage, if they do, report them or name them. I'm personally against the minimum wage, it makes no economic sense.

Pension schemes are nearly all kept independent, individual pensions have been around for years. Pensions need further overhaul, final salary schemes are unaffordable and everyone needs to work longer. Public sector pensions need to be privatised (I'd even suggest the unions run them) so they are not political footballs. We have the ridiculous situation with teacher's pension schemes or ponsi schemes as they should be called, where the terms are so favorable, they all take out more than they put in unless they die within 18 months of retirement.

The rich are getting richer because we're a knowledge economy, I was told when I was 5 that I must work hard at school because it will be impossible to earn a living without a skill, that was 40 years ago so it's hardly new news. Globalisation has proven this to be true and in any case, we have exported our sub-minimum wage jobs to low wage economies. Government has forced employment overseas, a lighter touch government that leaves it to the market may help but I fear it's too late.

[Duke Fame]

@Duke Fame - I am really interested.  Why a monorail?  Wouldn't that cost more to erect?  Do you mean like the one in Wuppertal?
Also - do you dislike subsidising transport?

I don't like subsidy full stop(do you put a full stop after full stop, if so should I have put a '.' after full stop in hte bracket in which case the 'after' should have had a capital 'A'). Subsidies breed inefficiency but I do see some need for state direction where there is market failure.

As for a monorail, the problem with the A6 (and the Marple - Stockport rd for that matter) is that tarmac is at a premium. It simply isn't easy or desirable to widen the road to increase capacity so, stick the public transport up-a-height on stilts. It can be like Wuppertal,  North Haverbrook, Monte Bianco, Alton Towers, Somerwest World, Sydney, Shonan or Disneyland - they all work pretty well. A modern one can be operated centrally, you don't need drivers (no strikes) and you can ensure they are spaced regularly. Buses (even the 383) bunch up in traffic and you get the leading bus being full with buses following being empty. buses get in the way, I've noticed especially here in the North west, bus lay-by's seem to have been filled in or never there and get in the way of the traffic. Bus lanes are highly inefficient use of tarmac (as are tram-lines) as they remain vacant when other lanes are full.

in short, monorail reduces congestion, removes the need for drivers, better service, faster and far more fun than a bus.

[CllrGeoffAbell]

@Duke Fame - whilst it was true that there was a lot of wildcat strikes and industrial action in the 70s (and indeed the Heath government was effectively brought down on the back of it), I respectfully suggest that the wealth is not being as fairly distributed these days: the rich are getting proportionately richer, some firms regularly pay less than minimum wage and pension schemes are being sucked dry.

[Duke Fame]

Its great to see that we agree on something! In Manchester there are about 120 trams currently in service built by Bombardier at Bautzen in Germany and Vienna in Austria  costing more than £2m each. There could be many more if the Metro comes to Marple. More expensive three carriage Supertrams manufactured by Siemens-Duewag in Dusseldorf Germany similar to those used in Sheffield were initially proposed for Rose Hill by TfGM  before the Tories came to power and demanded cuts (though the £15billion Crossrail track and tunnel beneath Cenral London went ahead). Not to worry, trains to Rose Hill and Marple operated by Northern Rail, owned now by Arriva a subsidiary of Deutche Bahn of, you've guessed it  - Germany, are replacing our beloved Pacers with £490 million worth of rolling stock from CAF of Spain (although the poor exchange rate which is the consequence of Cameron's insane decision to have a referendum about EU membership will undoubtedly push this figure upwards).

Duke's no-doubt beloved Blessed Margaret sold Britain's public transport system and train manufacturing industry for a song. Other European countries have been a great deal wiser.

Will Duke give the nod for his 'tax allowances to be used by heavier industry' to be allocated to the formation of a company constructing trains/trams used in this country before Scotland becomes independent to remain part of the EU resulting in Stagecoach's profits going to Perth and leaving High Peak Buses as the only English owned bus or train company carrying passengers in and out of Marple ? It would be reassuring to see at least some of the fares and grants paid by the people of Marple and of Greater Manchester being transformed into profits for manufacturing industry in Britain and wages for British workers.

As we leave the Eu, the opportunity to subsidise UK industry becomes an option once again. I'm not a fan of subsidies at all and to be honest, I raised the issue because we seem to have so many media related graduates that we have to give tax breaks to hypocrites like Ken Loach so that we can keep some of these guys employed.

I went to a political debate in Manchester at the time when British steel was in the media where it was facing problems of cost. One of the debators was some Manchester Labour scucouncillor who was talking of how Labour would save the day yet this guy selected to use NOT ONE OUNCE OR GRAM of British steel in their Metrolink system, the hypocrisy of these types is pretty hypocritical sometimes.

Now, with a lower sterling value, we're seeing an advantage in labour costs where, should this continue, will bring manufacturing back to these shores. I just hope the unions can be kept in check so that production along with effciency improves, The trade Union movement ruined this country in the 60's and 70's, let's hope they don't mess up opportunity. 

[CllrGeoffAbell]

@marplerambler as I am sure you know, part of the investment in the recent tram expansions came from the European investment Bank in the form of loans or grants.

@Duke Fame - I am really interested.  Why a monorail?  Wouldn't that cost more to erect?  Do you mean like the one in Wuppertal?
Also - do you dislike subsidising transport?

[marplerambler]

...I'd be far happier to see these tax allowances to be used by heavier industry ...

Its great to see that we agree on something! In Manchester there are about 120 trams currently in service built by Bombardier at Bautzen in Germany and Vienna in Austria  costing more than £2m each. There could be many more if the Metro comes to Marple. More expensive three carriage Supertrams manufactured by Siemens-Duewag in Dusseldorf Germany similar to those used in Sheffield were initially proposed for Rose Hill by TfGM  before the Tories came to power and demanded cuts (though the £15billion Crossrail track and tunnel beneath Cenral London went ahead). Not to worry, trains to Rose Hill and Marple operated by Northern Rail, owned now by Arriva a subsidiary of Deutche Bahn of, you've guessed it  - Germany, are replacing our beloved Pacers with £490 million worth of rolling stock from CAF of Spain (although the poor exchange rate which is the consequence of Cameron's insane decision to have a referendum about EU membership will undoubtedly push this figure upwards).

Duke's no-doubt beloved Blessed Margaret sold Britain's public transport system and train manufacturing industry for a song. Other European countries have been a great deal wiser.

Will Duke give the nod for his 'tax allowances to be used by heavier industry' to be allocated to the formation of a company constructing trains/trams used in this country before Scotland becomes independent to remain part of the EU resulting in Stagecoach's profits going to Perth and leaving High Peak Buses as the only English owned bus or train company carrying passengers in and out of Marple ? It would be reassuring to see at least some of the fares and grants paid by the people of Marple and of Greater Manchester being transformed into profits for manufacturing industry in Britain and wages for British workers.

[Duke Fame]

The sooner the better. Britain's main problem at the moment is that taxes are too low. The sick are being left to wait, rot and die if they cannot afford to pay for medical care. The country was on its knees at the end of the Second World War but money was found for the creation of a cradle to grave care system. As for transport in Marple, if you do not have a car, there are no problems travelling to, nor is there any shame holding down and keeping a job at Weatherspoons in Stockport : not everyone has the ability to be a professional or an entrepreneur who can afford to be so patronising towards the unemployed. I wouldn't mind betting that there are a few working there who have degrees who are fighting to get their foot into a more promising career. The real problem is travelling home at the end of the shift after the buses stop running and a taxi costs two hours earnings if you are on national minimum wage.

Oh! Silly me! Just before I pressed the send button I realised that you refer to people who drink at Weatherspoons rather than work at Weatherspoons. It looks as if my glass is half full and yours is half empty. Can you get the next round in please?

Silly you indeed, I meant those who are drinking.

It's utterly daft to complain of HGV's clogging up the A6. For starters, HGVs are on the roads because of business. Business are the only true employers and providers of wealth (and by which I include employment). THe problem on the A6 is that it's a busy road cut in half with bus lanes and traffic lights every 100 yds - traffic lights are environmentally unfriendly and been proven to adversely affect traffic flows. The 192 invariably runs in groups of 4 or 5 and very often empty but for the daytime drunk. An overhead monorail running the route will remove the need for bus lanes and be far quicker than the current service. The park and ride scheme is totally impracticable as a relief for the A6 - it may not be the white elephant it currently is as the Airport road is finished as it will no doubt be useful long term airport parking solution for Stagecoach.

Secondly, if you tax the use of the A6 , those HGV's are going to use an alternative route, maybe take a right at High Lane and route down to the M60 through Hibbert lane and so on.

I don't doubt we have many degree holders working at Wetherspoons, we are seeing too many graduates coming through with the 'wrong' degrees but any visit to the states will show you that the bar and restaurant industry is littered with wannabe actors and luvvie darlings and the govt try to get them employed by giving tax loopholes for these industries / very well paid individuals to enjoy and I'd be far happier to see these tax allowances to be used by heavier industry (and more HGVs)

[marplerambler]

Hmmm, yep, why not tax the businesses, the innovators, the entrepreneurs, the employers so that we can help the jobless get to wetherspoons a little earlier.

The sooner the better. Britain's main problem at the moment is that taxes are too low. The sick are being left to wait, rot and die if they cannot afford to pay for medical care. The country was on its knees at the end of the Second World War but money was found for the creation of a cradle to grave care system. As for transport in Marple, if you do not have a car, there are no problems travelling to, nor is there any shame holding down and keeping a job at Weatherspoons in Stockport : not everyone has the ability to be a professional or an entrepreneur who can afford to be so patronising towards the unemployed. I wouldn't mind betting that there are a few working there who have degrees who are fighting to get their foot into a more promising career. The real problem is travelling home at the end of the shift after the buses stop running and a taxi costs two hours earnings if you are on national minimum wage.

Oh! Silly me! Just before I pressed the send button I realised that you refer to people who drink at Weatherspoons rather than work at Weatherspoons. It looks as if my glass is half full and yours is half empty. Can you get the next round in please?

[Duke Fame]

Should there be a development at high lane, there would be an increase in A6 traffic. The biggest problem for the A6 (apart from far too many traffic lights - get roundabouts installed) is the excessive number of HGVs and cars using the route. It seems to me, the simple introduction of congestion charges north of Hazel Grove is the answer for hazel grove's park and ride. Elevating the status of public transport means that the ridiculously large number of  cars can be reduced, the ridiculously large number of HGVs making through journeys to the M60 be banned from the A6  and the A6 will run better. Marple would be a wonderful place to live if it we had a bus service with the frequency of the 192 or a train or tram link to Stockport rather than the horrendous traffic jam to Stockport at busy periods

Hmmm, yep, why not tax the businesses, the innovators, the entrepreneurs, the employers so that we can help the jobless get to wetherspoons a little earlier.

[marplerambler]

Should there be a development at high lane, there would be an increase in A6 traffic. The biggest problem for the A6 (apart from far too many traffic lights - get roundabouts installed) is the 192. It seems to me, the simple replacement of buses with a mono-rail is the answer from hazel grove's ridiculous park and ride. Elevating the public transport means bus lanes can be removed  and the A6 will run better.

Should there be a development at high lane, there would be an increase in A6 traffic. The biggest problem for the A6 (apart from far too many traffic lights - get roundabouts installed) is the excessive number of HGVs and cars using the route. It seems to me, the simple introduction of congestion charges north of Hazel Grove is the answer for hazel grove's park and ride. Elevating the status of public transport means that the ridiculously large number of  cars can be reduced, the ridiculously large number of HGVs making through journeys to the M60 be banned from the A6  and the A6 will run better. Marple would be a wonderful place to live if it we had a bus service with the frequency of the 192 or a train or tram link to Stockport rather than the horrendous traffic jam to Stockport at busy periods

[Duke Fame]

There are plenty of other places one can walk, cycle or ride.  Surely an improved transport system on a pre-existing route would be far more beneficial.

Should there be a development at high lane, there would be an increase in A6 traffic. The biggest problem for the A6 (apart from far too many traffic lights - get roundabouts installed) is the 192. It seems to me, the simple replacement of buses with a mono-rail is the answer from hazel grove's ridiculous park and ride. Elevating the public transport means bus lanes can be removed  and the A6 will run better.

[mikes]

The GMSF also states that Middlewood way must be maintained. I presume it may be moved alongside re instated tracks.

"Ensuring the integrity and continued use-ability of the Middlewood Way as a walking, cycling and
bridle route is of paramount importance to the development’s delivery."

No one would want to lose it now

There are plenty of other places one can walk, cycle or ride.  Surely an improved transport system on a pre-existing route would be far more beneficial.

[marplerambler]

Would that mean the loss of the Middlewood Way from Rose Hill to High Lane? Personally I wouldn't see that as a positive!

Don't forget that the Middlewood Way does not have the legal status of public footpath/public bridleway. This is made clear at a number of points on the East Cheshire section although there are no notices pointing out this fact in the Stockport MBC area. It was the situation five years ago that this land was owned by Network Rail and the Middlewood Way route maintained as a 'permissive route' i.e. a route on which pedestrian/horse/cycle rights can be removed by the landowner Network Rail and to the best of my knowledge this is still the case.

[CllrGeoffAbell]

That means then that it will be at least 10 years before the High lane development can start?

No firm plans @Franz .  GMSF just gives a commitment to infrastructure (including rail which takes time.)   They could be done at the same time time.  I personally see the Middlewood Way plus a line with 2 stations (like the former line had stations at the A6 and Middlewood Upper) - only at more convenient locations.

But I'd still rather not have 4,000 homes dumped on our green belt with no alternative.

[JohnBates]

That means then that it will be at least 10 years before the High lane development can start?

This would seem to be correct.