Etherow Country Park

[jimblob]

I'm not sure who you mean by "Stockport Council " do you me elected members if so do you mean all 63 or just the controlling Labour Group or some other combination or do you mean officers or is "Stockport Council" some turn of phrase which we are meant to understand. So who do you mean when using the term "Stockport Council " ?

I suspect I mean local government in general, a combination of all of the above giving rise to en mass indecision, design by committee, a complete absence of pragmatism and political correctness gone mad.

[wheels]

Great work Malcom!
Not only are Stockport council a bunch of tools, they're devious b*g**rs too and good at distorting the truth to perpetuate their own existence.

I'm not sure who you mean by "Stockport Council " do you me elected members if so do you mean all 63 or just the controlling Labour Group or some other combination or do you mean officers or is "Stockport Council" some turn of phrase which we are meant to understand. So who do you mean when using the term "Stockport Council " ?

[jimblob]

Oh and as the Tories look set to divert money away from urban councils to the (mostly blue) shires, expect things to get even worse.

So change Marple from a Liberal voting retirement village to something more like a (mostly blue) "Shire" instead of complaining about it. We'll never have a LibDem government so why perpetuate the myth that it works on a local level and suffer the consequences.

[amazon]

Just for the record, I didn’t use the term “ring fenced”. That is the term used by the Council. I askied why the money collected by the Car Park wasn’t used for the benefit of the park. That is not the same thing.

As a cyclist I know the Council spent thousands of pounds on creating a shared cycle and pedestrian track alongside Millgate that practically no cyclist wanted. Recently they have spent money on upgrading footpaths and bridleways in the Mellor Strines area, that relatively few people use, while at the same time refusing to upgrade Rollins Lane, Marple Bridge, that would allow pupils to cycle to school whose bus passes are being threatened.   Quote from the MEN  Proposal to axe some free school bus passes
Scores of school children may no longer be entitled to a free bus pass if plans to cut services go ahead.

The Council is totally unable to consider the effect their decisions will have without seeking alternative solutions. If we lose the toilets, the park becomes less attractive and eventually the money collected at the car park will diminish.   Some of that car park money should be designated for the park for essential maintenance, and any residue used for whatever hare brained schemes the Council next comes up with, which hopefully our Councillors will oppose most energetically.

As regular user of etherow park i agree with you all the way ihave heard today by a lady thats involed with freinds of the park that at the end of feb they are going to clear the mess i call it the swamp in front of the garden centre it has been put of three times dont no whos doing it the freinds or the councill .we shall see .you are aware its the toilets near the waterfall they want to close quite a few people who i have asked to signed the petition thats in the information part think its the cafe toilets . .But they could be next .keep complaining .

[andrewbowden]

Oh and as the Tories look set to divert money away from urban councils to the (mostly blue) shires, expect things to get even worse.

[andrewbowden]

Just for the record, I didn’t use the term “ring fenced”. That is the term used by the Council. I askied why the money collected by the Car Park wasn’t used for the benefit of the park. That is not the same thing.

As a cyclist I know the Council spent thousands of pounds on creating a shared cycle and pedestrian track alongside Millgate that practically no cyclist wanted. Recently they have spent money on upgrading footpaths and bridleways in the Mellor Strines area, that relatively few people use, while at the same time refusing to upgrade Rollins Lane, Marple Bridge, that would allow pupils to cycle to school whose bus passes are being threatened.   Quote from the MEN  Proposal to axe some free school bus passes
Scores of school children may no longer be entitled to a free bus pass if plans to cut services go ahead.

The Council is totally unable to consider the effect their decisions will have without seeking alternative solutions. If we lose the toilets, the park becomes less attractive and eventually the money collected at the car park will diminish.   Some of that car park money should be designated for the park for essential maintenance, and any residue used for whatever hare brained schemes the Council next comes up with, which hopefully our Councillors will oppose most energetically.

I am sorry you just don't get why no council ever commit to doing what you suggest by keeping the money in the park.  I have tried to explain clearly and obviously I have failed.  But it ain't going to happen.  No council would be stupid enough to do it because they know full well that to do so will cause them problems down the line.

And yes, closing down the toilets may well ultimately  result in less parking fees being taken.  And Westminster doesn't care.  Austerity measures have created all manner of short term savings that end up costing more in the long run.  But when councils have no cash, cut is all they can do.

If you have a magic source of money that will pay for everything, I am sure the council will be all ears.

Until then, expect more short sighted cuts that make so sense because when you have lost millions and millions of pounds off your annual budget for years and years, and you have to balance the books, what else do you do?

[CTCREP]

Just for the record, I didn’t use the term “ring fenced”. That is the term used by the Council. I askied why the money collected by the Car Park wasn’t used for the benefit of the park. That is not the same thing.

As a cyclist I know the Council spent thousands of pounds on creating a shared cycle and pedestrian track alongside Millgate that practically no cyclist wanted. Recently they have spent money on upgrading footpaths and bridleways in the Mellor Strines area, that relatively few people use, while at the same time refusing to upgrade Rollins Lane, Marple Bridge, that would allow pupils to cycle to school whose bus passes are being threatened.   Quote from the MEN  Proposal to axe some free school bus passes 
Scores of school children may no longer be entitled to a free bus pass if plans to cut services go ahead.

The Council is totally unable to consider the effect their decisions will have without seeking alternative solutions. If we lose the toilets, the park becomes less attractive and eventually the money collected at the car park will diminish.   Some of that car park money should be designated for the park for essential maintenance, and any residue used for whatever hare brained schemes the Council next comes up with, which hopefully our Councillors will oppose most energetically.

[andrewbowden]

The Council's lack of ring fence shows a complete disregard for all the people who pay their car parking fees to enjoy a park that the present establishment appear quite ready to let fall into decay.  I hope our Councillors of all parties will take up this issue, and ensure Stockport MBC recognises the value of the facilities we already have.

Okay - serious question.

If you start ring fencing money raised, where do you stop ring fencing?  Because ring fencing one thing sets precedents.
You start by keeping money raised in Etherow and only spending it there.  Then someone else comes along and demands that money raised in area X is only spent in area X.  And why shouldn't it, because look what you're doing in Etherow!

And before you know it, all the money raised from the Derby Way car park is only being spent on projects within a 2 minute walk of that car park, because that's "Marple's money".

Ring fencing cash like that just means it will just mean they've tied their hands behind their back.  What if one year there's not enough money raised from the fees?  What if there's more raised than needed, but some other area desperately needs the cash and hasn't got it?

Of course that all assumes that the parking fees are profit making...  Which may or may not be the case.

That's your reason why the council won't ring fence the money.  You'd be better off trying to make sure Etherow has as much money as it needs, rather than insisting the source.

Although good luck with that because the council's got to make £16m of cuts this year alone thanks to cuts made on all local councils by the government in Westminster.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/stockport-council-new-budget-impact-15780280

The way things are going, we'll be lucky if the council has any money to give to parks at all.

[CTCREP]

Latest reply from the Council

The closure (not demolition) of the toilet block is related not only to the ongoing revenue costs but also the capital required to bring them into a decent condition. The closure of this toilet block would not leave the park without facilities, there is a full suite of toilet facilities at the café / visitor centre.
 
You have also asked why the income from car parking is not ring fenced to the upkeep of the park. This is largely due to the manner in which income is treated by the Council. It is not ‘additional funding’ but forms the basis of the means to cover costs in much the same was that services are funded by Council Tax and Business Rates.


How do you deal with Council employees who find it better to close down a facility (No mention of £27,000 or even £5000, nor a broken drain, so where did that come from?  I  am sure there are many people, considering we are an ageing population, would accept a poor facility more than not have one at all.  Not everyone is able to walk from the weir down to the Cafe when nature calls. 

The Council's lack of ring fence shows a complete disregard for all the people who pay their car parking fees to enjoy a park that the present establishment appear quite ready to let fall into decay.  I hope our Councillors of all parties will take up this issue, and ensure Stockport MBC recognises the value of the facilities we already have.

[jimblob]

I would hope the Council will recognise that the £5000 repair bill is better than the £27,000 demolition bill.  But even if the repair bill proves to be higher or the repair even proves to be impossible, the installation of a cesspit or septic tank is also about £5000.  This is yet another example of this Council, particularly those responsible for parks and footpaths, failing to investigate fully and to understand the result of their ill considered decisions.

And a prime example of them missing the point; it's not just about budgets but about preserving green-space and amenities alongside developing and maintaining infrastructure for better transport. The council is so obsessed with safety, speed limits and creating a nanny state, they're failing in their basic duties by claiming a moral high-ground / we know better attitude.

[amazon]

I would hope the Council will recognise that the £5000 repair bill is better than the £27,000 demolition bill.  But even if the repair bill proves to be higher or the repair even proves to be impossible, the installation of a cesspit or septic tank is also about £5000.  This is yet another example of this Council, particularly those responsible for parks and footpaths, failing to investigate fully and to understand the result of their ill considered decisions.

easy come easy go atitude .

[CTCREP]

I would hope the Council will recognise that the £5000 repair bill is better than the £27,000 demolition bill.  But even if the repair bill proves to be higher or the repair even proves to be impossible, the installation of a cesspit or septic tank is also about £5000.  This is yet another example of this Council, particularly those responsible for parks and footpaths, failing to investigate fully and to understand the result of their ill considered decisions.

[Stephen]

For many years I had involvement with Manchester City Council at senior officer (and councillor) level and that taught me never to believe a word that you are told. Financial estimates for work which quite often were twice what it should be and outright lies were commonplace. Never take what you are told without doing your own in depth investigation.

[amazon]

I've been working on this for a while. As well as being a Councillor, I am also a volunteer at Etherow. We were aware as soon as the toilets were closed and for months now I've been writing to and meeting council officers to get information on why. This is a very long story but to keep it short, we were told there was an expensive repair needed to a drainage pipe and this would cost in the region of £20k odd. I asked to see the quotation as it seemed very high. Meanwhile they found a quote for the alternative, which was demolition of the toilets at a cost of £27,000. Thanks to a Freedom of Information request we now know the cost of the drain repair is quoted at £5k, and the rest is all about other repairs and ongoing maintenance over 3 years. I believe most of this can be done buy us volunteers, hence saving the toilets and the tax payer soem cash! The petition is mine, and has my name on the bottom, and I told the council I was doing this when they were unable after a long period to get me the data we now have. Please sign the petition if you agree with us, and I will present it to full Council. Big thanks to Etherow Volunteers and Compstall Community Council who have been pushing on this issue through me and been a huge support and very active in getting out the petition.

Well done will sign this weekend when i go walking around there .

[jimblob]

Thanks to a Freedom of Information request we now know the cost of the drain repair is quoted at £5k, and the rest is all about other repairs and ongoing maintenance over 3 years.

Great work Malcom!
Not only are Stockport council a bunch of tools, they're devious b*g**rs too and good at distorting the truth to perpetuate their own existence.