Climate Change

[CTCREP]

I agree with Jmblob that Councils are introducing “cycle facilities” without thought of their affect on other road users.   However they also introduce “cycle facilities” that are actually cycle unfriendly. This is because of their total ignorance of cycling and what can and should be achieved.   Britain is 50 years behind much of Europe.

Andrew says "I have never driven to Manchester City Centre.  I try but I totally get why people don’t”.   

During my working life I have cycled into the centre of London, Birmingham and Manchester. Of course in recent years, particularly in Manchester, motor traffic has increased to the extent that most cyclists have been unwilling to risk their lives by doing so. 

However this should not be the case.  20 years ago Stockport MBC joined forces with Sustrans to create a cycle route between Marple and Stockport. It still isn’t finished.  Eventually it should link up with a cycle route from Stockport into Manchester enabling people who at present use their cars, or the variable public transport, to cycle there instead.  The most environmentally friendly method of all, and is catered for in many parts of Europe.

In the opposite direction we have the Middlewood Way that links Marple with Macclesfield, although it isn’t cycle commuter friendly, and the connection to the Airport Ring Road is still not available.  This is all down to SMBC choosing not to cater for cyclists.  A simple example is the excellent cycle and skateboard facility in the Memorial Park,   but there is no provision for cyclists to get there safely

Andrew’s final sentence - Facilities for Cycling are Woeful - is one that is really important.  The usual suggestion -  of not using you car to go to buy a newspaper a ¼ mile away - is, for most cyclists, an unrealistic proposal.  It would be quicker for me to jump in the car and drive there because my car is already on the drive and my bike is in a locked garage. Having got the bike out, when I get there I need to find somewhere secure to park it and then lock it up. Parking the car and locking it is far quicker. In reality I walk there.   However for longer journeys through suburbia the bike is often quicker than the car, and it is time SMBC started putting Cycling at the head of their Transport Agenda and actually catering for Cyclists, not just put in useless facilities and ticking boxes in reports.

[andrewbowden]

Have you looked on the stagecoach website for familey tck prices .

Yep - that's where I got the information from. 
https://www.stagecoachbus.com/regionaltickets/greater-manchester/stockport/dayrider

Dayrider Plus One (one adult, one child) is £6.80.
Dayrider Group (up to two adults and three children) is £10.50.

Once my second child reaches five I'd have to get one Dayrider Plus One and a Dayrider Child (£2.50) - total £9.30 - for the three of us.  And if I want to get that from the driver the child needs an igo card.  But if I get it from the app they don't.  Cos that makes sense.

[amazon]

Nothing helps get people out of their cars like Stagecoach cutting the frequency of our main bus services (the 383/384), and the cost of travel.  I'm going to Grand Central with the children on Monday.  Bank Holidays the buses only run every 30 minutes, so we'd be waiting for ages if we missed one.  One child isn't five yet but even so for the older one and me the fare would be £6.80 there and back.  If their mum came too it would be £10.50.

In contrast I can drive, park for absolutely nothing, and travel when we need to. 

And that's when there's a bus there.  If I wanted to get to my parents or the inlaws, I can do it by public transport but realistically it takes twice as long - assuming you can make the required combo of buses and trains meet.

I am a big fan of public transport.  I am a bit fan of cycling.  I try to use them as much as possible, and leave the car at home as much as I can.  I cycled to Stockport the other weekend for my eye test, did my shopping, came back.  I regularly cycle to Hazel Grove.  I cycled to my Covid vaccine appointment which was probably quicker than driving given the traffic queues for parking.  I have never driven to Manchester City Centre.  I try but I totally get why people don't.  Public transport is extortionate, doesn't connect well with each other.  Facilities for cyclists are woeful. 

And nothing - nothing at all - will change until huge amounts of effort are made to change things.  And it's going to take years even if people do buy in.

Have you looked on the stagecoach website for familey tck prices .

[nbt]

I agree entirely, the provision of public transport is woeful, probably due to years of it being run as a "for-profit" enterprise, rather than as a public service. That's not a reason to stop building cycle lanes though. GM council resuming control of buses may help, I would hope

[andrewbowden]

Nothing helps get people out of their cars like Stagecoach cutting the frequency of our main bus services (the 383/384), and the cost of travel.  I'm going to Grand Central with the children on Monday.  Bank Holidays the buses only run every 30 minutes, so we'd be waiting for ages if we missed one.  One child isn't five yet but even so for the older one and me the fare would be £6.80 there and back.  If their mum came too it would be £10.50.

In contrast I can drive, park for absolutely nothing, and travel when we need to. 

And that's when there's a bus there.  If I wanted to get to my parents or the inlaws, I can do it by public transport but realistically it takes twice as long - assuming you can make the required combo of buses and trains meet.

I am a big fan of public transport.  I am a bit fan of cycling.  I try to use them as much as possible, and leave the car at home as much as I can.  I cycled to Stockport the other weekend for my eye test, did my shopping, came back.  I regularly cycle to Hazel Grove.  I cycled to my Covid vaccine appointment which was probably quicker than driving given the traffic queues for parking.  I have never driven to Manchester City Centre.  I try but I totally get why people don't.  Public transport is extortionate, doesn't connect well with each other.  Facilities for cyclists are woeful. 

And nothing - nothing at all - will change until huge amounts of effort are made to change things.  And it's going to take years even if people do buy in.

[nbt]

and therein lies the entire problem in this country
"you can do whatever you want as long as you don't stop people driving and parking their cars wherever and whenever they want"

At the moment there is no impetus to provide a viable and pratical alternative as it's not needed as people can just use their cars. While I agree that it would be perfect to have everything in place before making changes, as things stand the politicians aren't going to spend money on buses and trains and cycle infrastructure because they feel it's not a votewinner.

Remeber, inthe 1970s places like Amsterdam weren't too different to Manchester. They made an active choice to prioritise pedestrians, bikes and public transport over the private motor vehicle and as a result, they're now well regardded asnicer places to live and work. In more recent times Paris has made massive changes in the last few months.

How do you think cycle lanes  should be added? At the moment the approach seems to be one of getting bikes out of the way of cars by making a pavement shared user (hint: this is not good practice and is not recommended) or by redirecting bikes down quiet side streets, making the journey significantly longer. If ever a proposal is made to add a reasonably direct and useful cycle lane (e.g. from the A55 to the middlewood way close to Marple, or slightly further away the A56 cycle lanes) then it is oposed and eventually overruled or removed.

Your position is not tenable. We as a car-driven society need to accept that we have to reduce our reliance on the personal motor vehicle and start to use more environmentally friendly methids of moving around - buses, trains, bike walking. Walk to the shops and get your shopping from the local butchers and bakers. or get them delivered, rather than getting in a car an driving to bredbury then complaining that you're being held up by all the othe cars on the road. Walk your children to school rather than putting them in an SUV and driving less than a mile. Walk to the station and get the train to Manchester rather than driving in, or get the  bus (or even cycle) into Stockport to go to work

(note I'm not highlighting any single person here but I do recall some of the points addressed above being raised on this very forum recently)

[jimblob]

Because the way we're adding cycle lanes is typically detrimental to the existing road infrastructure as far as motorists are concerned rather than being complimentary to it. Nor does it offer a practical or viable alternative. You create the viable alternative first before you disrupt the status quo!

[CTCREP]

Hello

Climate Change and Obesity has prompted the Government to try to encourage car users to walk or cycle instead.   Already recent temporary cycle lanes are being removed in this country due to complaints from motorists.

See this BBC program that shows what is happening in Europe.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000n990/our-world-europes-cycling-revolution